From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_PDS_PRO_TLD autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9639 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2022 18:34:06 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Oct 2022 18:34:06 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C1D40EC1; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:33:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pathfinder.casadevall.pro (pathfinder.casadevall.pro [45.33.112.193]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E44CF40154 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:33:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f179.google.com (mail-pl1-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by pathfinder.casadevall.pro (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1F5361F530 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 18:33:40 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=casadevall.pro; s=mail; t=1665426820; bh=ydj52odBTjol2iM5UgnF7OAkIa4pzgkb3gFO5iANJZs=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=b6ELrUoLA4V9dt7Q6hgTbUGR0nlLrY+vAAECc9DWLTahLDTleyXFipupZX5DlfJv8 eLifSlcNuQr1ZTfX2D3qJKs09s4BemHsze1VTwxHwpML1rFD228RaBmeJ6lloDFmE9 8zMl3uqXTOlFESGF14CHT/dTdbMNzNqeLXei9uFS3skxEtDz+QfZ14mpI6X//2oPOr B8tjQhS5LRJ09Jghj/KsIQwmYv7u2UjDru8mDoG31sHiP+FoZOUubPdiM0I3EtalxE SGto8/GSmjlIEr1ziLL862V1huSmZ0F49mXZ/ppj5ziT7Kfex0HdipiGJ37l1NKlr5 BNSMUC1vX+9oA== Received: by mail-pl1-f179.google.com with SMTP id c24so11134480plo.3 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf08gOReewIPPzCn2GAH421Gs1poDXkOyUHuhf6+0r3hmHxjGqwl ZzsL4If3i1DjWMFl9zy0eSqimuamCgL24cxgEeU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM56xdno7WSqALGO5p9FhGFssKPYyUgJOPXzQnG+9nFgcisBKkRCdqe/lKodapLPYEathK66+TmmTkhyYYfED7E= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7101:b0:180:202c:ad77 with SMTP id a1-20020a170902710100b00180202cad77mr18479834pll.47.1665426816827; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:33:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Casadevall Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:33:25 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d10a3105eab265a5" Message-ID-Hash: FAA4XO5VKCVVG3CWEM66CQMEFJXBFRJQ X-Message-ID-Hash: FAA4XO5VKCVVG3CWEM66CQMEFJXBFRJQ X-MailFrom: michael@casadevall.pro X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Attempting To Build NOSC and BBN UNIXs + ARPANET code List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000d10a3105eab265a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, I've been recently working on researching ARPANET and the like for use in an upcoming video. As a starting point, I've been looking at the early UNIX networking code in archives, specifically, the NOSC tarball, and I've spent quite a few hours trying to get building on livestreams. What I've found is that there's corruption issues in code; which is noted in JOHNS-NOTE, although it's more severe than I realized. For example sys4.c is entirely corrupted, and part of impio.c is cut off. However, this isn=E2=80=99t quite as bad as it sounds. For example, by kitbashing both th= e original v6 source code, and the later BBN TCP code, I was able to create a sys4.c that builds and links which should be close to the original. Furthermore, it is possible to use the =E2=80=9Cvdh=E2=80=9D target instead= of the imp target to at least try and get the code building. I did successfully get a kernel to build, and it even prints out a mem message before deadlocking. My guess is it's either deadlocked waiting for the IMP, or there=E2=80=99s something wrong with the build. There=E2=80=99s some indication that it mig= ht need a split kernel, although I=E2=80=99ve not had any success with that thus fa= r. I have uploaded my current build tree to git, as well as tarball with simh images if anyone wants to try and figure out what has gone wrong. I admit, my knowledge of PDP-11 assembly and debugging platforms is a bit wanting :) There=E2=80=99s some indication that this, and the later BBN TCP (which is = from around the same time period) code were built on top of the Programmer=E2=80= =99s Workbench vs. stock v6; especially because some code patches were needed to get it to build. I did look at the TUHS PWB archives, I see a bunch of binaries, but absolutely no idea how to install them. I=E2=80=99ve heard th= at none of these archives are actually complete, but I'm hoping someone might have some idea of how to go forward, since, if nothing else, I=E2=80=99d like to= end this with a success story, although I=E2=80=99m happy with as far as I got. Furthermore, I do know that I can run some of the ARPA level utilities in MIT ITS on CHAOSNET, which will be an upcoming project, although that is going to be a dive in and of itself. In short, I=E2=80=99m hoping someone might be able to provide some insight = into where things have gone wrong: * Is the netunix kernel I built hanging because of corrupted code, or is it waiting for non-existent hardware. * NOTE: The DC-11 driver was not included, but I don=E2=80=99t think I need= that for a single console? * Is there any versions of PWB that is =E2=80=9Ceasily=E2=80=9D installab= le, since its very clear the later BBN code requires it (it refers to ncc explicitly)? * I know IMPs have been emulated, and even have successfully routed packets, so I=E2=80=99m also trying to figure out how much would still be n= ecessary to actually recreate a minimal ARPA network? I did try to build some of the NCP applications regardless; it does appear that some parts are simply missing. Mailer.cc seems to want a hnconv.o but no source file exists. The FTP daemon on the other hand wants a library simply called =E2=80=9Cj=E2=80=9D. My guess is that even if the NCP code was buildable, the applications might not be. However, this did make me take a closer look at the BBN code, and it does have an ifdef for NCP, suggesting that it was still usable/supported? It makes sense, it seems to have been written before the TCP/IP flag day. I=E2=80=99m just not sure where to approach compiling it. I=E2=80=99ve uploaded the code with patches to build with the v6 compiler t= o github here: https://github.com/NCommander/network-unix-v6/tree/attempted-repair NOTE: v6's cc needs a seperate patch to increase the symbol table size; that's done in the disk image. Files, with SIMH configuration available here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QS0B3RU_mwXSGtl2En-d0WI3PJ1-udEs/view?usp= =3Dsharing My livestreams (12 hours or so) are on my YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/c/NCommander Feel free to forward this to other lists that may have PDP-11 or ARPANET experts! ~ NCommander --000000000000d10a3105eab265a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all,
I've been recently working on researching = ARPANET and the like for use in an upcoming video. As a starting point, I&#= 39;ve been looking at the early UNIX networking code in archives, specifica= lly, the NOSC tarball, and I've spent quite a few hours trying to get b= uilding on livestreams.

What I've found is that there's corr= uption issues in code; which is noted in JOHNS-NOTE, although it's more= severe than I realized. For example sys4.c is entirely corrupted, and part= of impio.c is cut off. However, this isn=E2=80=99t quite as bad as it soun= ds. For example, by kitbashing both the original v6 source code, and the la= ter BBN TCP code, I was able to create a sys4.c that builds and links which= should be close to the original. Furthermore, it is possible to use the = =E2=80=9Cvdh=E2=80=9D target instead of the imp target to at least try and = get the code building. I did successfully get a kernel to build, and it eve= n prints out a mem message before deadlocking.

My guess is it's = either deadlocked waiting for the IMP, or there=E2=80=99s something wrong w= ith the build. There=E2=80=99s some indication that it might need a split k= ernel, although I=E2=80=99ve not had any success with that thus far. I have= uploaded my current build tree to git, as well as tarball with simh images= if anyone wants to try and figure out what has gone wrong. I admit, my kno= wledge of PDP-11 assembly and debugging platforms is a bit wanting :)
There=E2=80=99s some indication that this, and the later BBN TCP (which i= s from around the same time period) code were built on top of the Programme= r=E2=80=99s Workbench vs. stock v6; especially because some code patches we= re needed to get it to build. I did look at the TUHS PWB archives, I see a = bunch of binaries, but absolutely no idea how to install them. I=E2=80=99ve= heard that none of these archives are actually complete, but I'm hopin= g someone might have some idea of how to go forward, since, if nothing else= , I=E2=80=99d like to end this with a success story, although I=E2=80=99m h= appy with as far as I got.

Furthermore, I do know that I can run som= e of the ARPA level utilities in MIT ITS on CHAOSNET, which will be an upco= ming project, although that is going to be a dive in and of itself.

= In short, I=E2=80=99m hoping someone might be able to provide some insight = into where things have gone wrong:
=C2=A0 * Is the netunix kernel I buil= t hanging because of corrupted code, or is it waiting for non-existent hard= ware.
* NOTE: The DC-11 driver was not included, but I don=E2=80=99t th= ink I need that for a single console?
=C2=A0 * Is there any versions of = PWB that is =E2=80=9Ceasily=E2=80=9D installable, since its very clear the = later BBN code requires it (it refers to ncc explicitly)?
=C2=A0 * I kno= w IMPs have been emulated, and even have successfully routed packets, so I= =E2=80=99m also trying to figure out how much would still be necessary to a= ctually recreate a minimal ARPA network?

I did try to build some of = the NCP applications regardless; it does appear that some parts are simply = missing. Mailer.cc seems to want a hnconv.o but no source file exists. The = FTP daemon on the other hand wants a library simply called =E2=80=9Cj=E2=80= =9D.

My guess is that even if the NCP code was buildable, the applic= ations might not be. However, this did make me take a closer look at the BB= N code, and it does have an ifdef for NCP, suggesting that it was still usa= ble/supported? It makes sense, it seems to have been written before the TCP= /IP flag day. I=E2=80=99m just not sure where to approach compiling it.
=
I=E2=80=99ve uploaded the code with patches to build with the v6 compil= er to github here: https://github.com/NCommander/network-unix-v6/tree/= attempted-repair

NOTE: v6's cc needs a seperate patch to inc= rease the symbol table size; that's done in the disk image.

Fil= es, with SIMH configuration available here: https://d= rive.google.com/file/d/1QS0B3RU_mwXSGtl2En-d0WI3PJ1-udEs/view?usp=3Dsharing=

My livestreams (12 hours or so) are on my YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/c/NCommander
--000000000000d10a3105eab265a5--