From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B710423DB8 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2024 22:11:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D188436F1; Tue, 1 Oct 2024 06:11:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2F23436EE for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2024 06:11:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2fac187eef2so25304371fa.3 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:11:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1727727099; x=1728331899; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bFz0X0hnNv7TwtIkwfCoyUppdLJX62w+ny+xROjuN30=; b=TyrP6RRJ5c2nY4/HnqRy4H0IiNwHvXFq3rBKAXBC9RoF1/aQVX+aLCrbeJplwJo4Mt +VSI9rkP/vPK95pkc6ocoRni/GYDC9UcOw5nfySag7wcpQtDwXAMQfjuXRyZ3usg9nCg r9nCfC88SHZOtHQPQo/ZkjCaNRGU6D4WO+T4exd2SNyxRDKYHFSpG6DmyBaZv2HbJJbZ J7093DVLxprxhyyiAFD1z3RzwHRua4ugBEWrgvsOw+nXncQm2CxhFTI1/ZgV0MuK4zO3 +ogITmV6r02B6HLMFokp8qNYjkq/lKJdFO0631/LI5O/P7bhfjtSd0GhH4tChebLsMX3 Hq7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1727727099; x=1728331899; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bFz0X0hnNv7TwtIkwfCoyUppdLJX62w+ny+xROjuN30=; b=WJfaFZyQMa0QcxvAqm4jHnMmNaao1OqyBf7DOrWQIquQWHWB64bW21ev+Y5TFht099 j9abZwOzs685ytyjF1//Bil0DYvKokJHiSV0jaBbIm5QnMI7B3+0mUpazii0Me9WcJ9Q oBC7NKUdrJ3DqQXjyY9GmXiki+EsLPHzW5CG2ZS06BpAS28qoXIdIyNnpXbKg9qwj9Pk TeU9diEQdmSj6mfVgVFk0V6EiJL4iZ5ucUA1mLeW7qZK2QtKGzDVPlFiygvDa5pyW0+Q mZsaj5LFjAlXx0NUH52AZBa27UuW0YpBZsnhHM+VxRNKZE5IakHhjqOBNRVS9KH9shXc ftdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy0TCxQqe3XWBpMUE3hmjNrtk4n4F3hTfpWzQoDkTjjlHFyvH3i o907ErkTfEwNHSHCNz0NUf2Av26L9RZJ9NR/2Ij/ka1c+nchstYrzMq7RBi0GvKHBfD1/sDZCtm GdXVkgbDqBwq2jCBetfl4TZ25Wfgb0czL X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEsyMJxZRKl2RkBy3ybTW43smLG8XfBALN1b5acT/5yAnKmGf1Z+1y5HgMYxR5JbdeGREtAJ2+dF0o99HUg6Uk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:154b:b0:2f2:9f26:ce96 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f9d419d43dmr59236301fa.40.1727727098450; Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:11:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <58a1875a-9377-4b5b-ba03-e8dfcea8364e@insinga.com> In-Reply-To: From: Henry Bent Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 16:11:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Halbert Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f8ddd506235bcfd4" Message-ID-Hash: 2ZXTRCH7LABBA5WCIMAUTE7MNWH7M4FT X-Message-ID-Hash: 2ZXTRCH7LABBA5WCIMAUTE7MNWH7M4FT X-MailFrom: henry.r.bent@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: On computerese List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000f8ddd506235bcfd4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 30 Sept 2024 at 16:01, Dan Halbert wrote: > On 9/30/24 15:15, Henry Bent wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Sept 2024 at 14:08, Dan Cross wrote: > >> >> This makes me wonder when the `apropos` command was introduced; surely >> the name was also somewhat of an obscure joke ("what is apropos of >> listing a directory?" is not exactly the phrase that springs >> immediately to mind when wondering how to list a directory). >> > > Looks like it was introduced in 2BSD, written by Bill Joy, though the > 4.4BSD manpage claims that it was introduced in 3BSD. Neither the BSD > source nor manpage are particularly enlightening about the choice of name. > > > I was one of the Berkeley grad students in the office with Bill Joy around > this time. I think the name probably come from the "apropos" command in > Emacs. That command is mentioned here: > https://worrydream.com/refs/Stallman_1979_-_EMACS,_The_Extensible,_Customizable,_Self-Documenting_Display_Editor.pdf, > which is dated June 1979, but the Emacs command existed before that date. > The Berkeley source code is dated 1979: > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=2BSD/src/apropos.c > > I had used Emacs at MIT as an undergraduate. Bill would sometimes ask me, > "how do they do that in Emacs", or ITS, and then riff on a feature and put > it into vi or whatever. Whether I suggested an "apropos" Unix command or > someone wanted something like that, or I said, "sounds like 'apropos' in > Emacs", I don't remember. > That definitely tracks with an outlier I turned up in my search of sources, an "apropos.doc" that appears on the CSRG DVD with the sources for CMU Emacs. It's just a list of mappings from commands to keybindings, for example: ... delete-next-character ^D delete-next-word ESC-D delete-other-windows ^X1 delete-previous-character ^H delete-previous-character RUBOUT ... I'm not particularly an Emacs person, but it looks like it could be the output from an "apropos" command, or perhaps the input to it. -Henry --000000000000f8ddd506235bcfd4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, 30 Sept 2024 at 16:01, Dan Halber= t <halbert@halwitz.org> wr= ote:
=20 =20 =20
On 9/30/24 15:15, Henry Bent wrote:
=20
On Mon, 30 Sept 2024 at 14:08, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

This makes me wonder when the `apropos` command was introduced; surely
the name was also somewhat of an obscure joke ("what is apropos of
listing a directory?" is not exactly the phrase that sprin= gs
immediately to mind when wondering how to list a directory).

Looks like it was introduced in 2BSD, written by Bill Joy, though the 4.4BSD manpage claims that it was introduced in 3BSD.=C2=A0 Neither the BSD source nor manpage are particularly enlightening about the choice of name.

I was one of the Berkeley grad students in the office with Bill Joy around this time. I think the name probably=C2=A0 come from the "a= propos" command in Emacs. That command is mentioned here: htt= ps://worrydream.com/refs/Stallman_1979_-_EMACS,_The_Extensible,_Customizabl= e,_Self-Documenting_Display_Editor.pdf, which is dated June 1979, but the Emacs command existed before that date. The Berkeley source code is dated 1979: https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=3D2= BSD/src/apropos.c

I had used Emacs at MIT as an undergraduate. Bill would sometimes ask me, "how do they do that in Emacs", or ITS, and then riff= on a feature and put it into vi or whatever. Whether I suggested an "apropos" Unix command or someone wanted something like that,= or I said, "sounds like 'apropos' in Emacs", I don't r= emember.

That definitely tracks w= ith an outlier I turned up in my search of sources, an "apropos.doc&qu= ot; that appears on the CSRG DVD with the sources for CMU Emacs.=C2=A0 It&#= 39;s just a list of mappings from commands to keybindings, for example:

...
delete-next-character =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0^D
delete-next-word =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 ESC-D
delete-other-windows =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ^X1
delete= -previous-character =C2=A0 =C2=A0^H
delete-previous-character =C2=A0 =C2= =A0RUBOUT
...

I'm not particularly an Emacs= person, but it looks like it could be the output from an "apropos&quo= t; command, or perhaps the input to it.

-Henry=
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