From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18723 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2023 13:11:13 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Jul 2023 13:11:13 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C2E42A5E; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 23:11:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com (mail-lj1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::235]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAF0F42A42 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 23:10:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b933bbd3eeso52155741fa.1 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:10:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689685846; x=1692277846; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UuVp9DO2YQCAbWA8Pt/xs0ldSh9li+7ECeXQ5eBDV+k=; b=Fa8qLLr4dCer+g/jn5yxLRLyl2RFt21rlHvNnW7EgpofsOMrPtOvCWR2X9N9bTPTZ4 YGit8dj40RjWHqStIhdhFPUWD3UJA/4NZoXurvgCxYM4+poG2DHBHRzGB0EZBVQoChQQ BcDmfAfoTO6tbz5e7c0YHhh8u1y1Yst1FNggGjblE5EgnD6P3Eu7IPmpkauvUXdWBWEy 802So0gUvcu6hAz2EuAAYmEI50CcJokljShS8gcnZqQ1I5K0D+Wl1WrhwnKziJmIF8KH cPcUsrIEHHqjDaBEczbcoApY7Rkt9vDQljFc5SBp/q3mcwTvHgEGJoB5wyMiQGRKdAUX XuCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689685846; x=1692277846; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=UuVp9DO2YQCAbWA8Pt/xs0ldSh9li+7ECeXQ5eBDV+k=; b=XzO1pT7osgmCtKQAAwlepCfCByjXU+3lVrYkfxs3MJyN0wocVLO5WeW6plwaH5/QmO QJtRCVultBlIAjANrqcmpylrKMy0TU/FTwLBAzwSS0ei5gSOlDuR7DdFpRFMnXFreRxa 73BhRlP6QiB8TxqEkX5Jrolb5uagWMA/2JhHSj81NP6qb7ITjohcNCPpf+5oRjuNJtK1 /B/73P/COSXmLu7Gvs4miwmoBLmL2/PQJAsrg7kHRDfenltCK0SFFaQBJfGcLrQqWB+g pa5PT2BDM3lhDB0vqmbxXrP9ElOpPHO1Q6psuSmjqncj1Sbbqyj45IMRrzvMKtEODF/A a/gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLYPHape0RQwt7soFg/thUGDUkna6wSN+eqoSkJe75sEwpdbKDI8 7eCFI3m9A6Yb+Y9XybNO9S60yvxRiVe89mwmVx2XVNZj X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlE6gOhAjfxFUk3ssLdztNpOeK5y2ZXxOv6wN3nYgI6+cBjcBV9D7aneNSBAojsKoYPYI04Lw5oWYV7bnWaMLBU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:780a:0:b0:2b6:fe55:7318 with SMTP id t10-20020a2e780a000000b002b6fe557318mr14730773ljc.12.1689685845396; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:10:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230718004946.4ACC518C09B@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20230718004946.4ACC518C09B@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Henry Bent Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 09:10:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000098d1360600c2a471" Message-ID-Hash: LIEP5GKMG5HFIHYBCCTPWZGKEXM2SYIZ X-Message-ID-Hash: LIEP5GKMG5HFIHYBCCTPWZGKEXM2SYIZ X-MailFrom: henry.r.bent@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Research UNIX PDP 11/45 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000098d1360600c2a471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 at 20:49, Noel Chiappa wrote: > > From: Henry Bent > > > there will be a lengthy addendum shortly. > > The most useful thing is probably this: > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4/nsys/ken/low.s > > which lists exactly what was there; not only the types, but how many of > each > there are. This is from 'nsys', which is slightly before the actual V4, so > it's quite early. 'low.s' is inherently machine-specific; i.e. different > machines would share most kernel files identically, but _not_ this one - > unless they had _absolutely identical_ device sets. So this one is > _probably_ > the one from the /45 in picture. > > It shows: > > RK11 > RF11 > PC11 > TC11 > TM11 > > 1xKL11 > 12xDC11 > 1xDP11 (synchronous serial) > 1xDN11 (dial-out asynch control) > > 1xDR11C (parallel port to -11/20) > 2xDC11 (Screw Works voice synthesizer) > 1xDR11A (voice response unit) > 1xDR11C (C/A/T typesetter) > > (Line printer, card reader and RP11 are commented out; more about the RP11 > in a later message. > > > There's also this: > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4/nsys/ken/11-45 > > which is a bit hard to interpret, but I think might list what's in each > rack: > the TC11, RK11 (early ones), RF11 and TM11 (early ones) were large custom > wire-wrapped backplanes which bolted into the front or back of a 19 inch > rack; this: > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/RK11-C_disk_controller > > has an image of such an RK11. The "MOS 16-24" is probably a reference to an > MS11: > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/MS11_Semiconductor_Memory_System > > which had to mount in the CPU backplane. The "MM" entries are likely core > memory units; probably MM11-K's: > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/MM11-K_core_memory > > since they seem to be 4KW each. (Maybe MM11-E's or 'F's, though; those are > also 4KW each.) I'm not sure what they "PL"s are - probably Plessey core? > Anyway,it looks like the machine had 104KB total. > > > This file: > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4/nsys/ken/conf.c > > lists all the types of devices on the machine. One oddity is that it lists > two RK11's; but if you look at the RK11 driver: > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4/nsys/dmr/rk.c > > it's only set up to handle one physical controller. But there is this: > > #define JRK 1 /* temp */ > > if (bp->b_dev.d_major==JRK) > d = bp->b_dev.d_minor; > else > d = bp->b_blkno%3; > > so the two different major device entries appear to handle the same disks > in > different ways ("d = bp->b_blkno%3" will spread a virtual drive across > three > physical drives). > > > Memory, it would have been hard to say (UNIX even then sized memory at > start > up) but then I found that '11-45' file. I also found a copy of the CACM > version of the UNIX paper: > > https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~brewer/cs262/unix.pdf > > which says the machine had 144KB (so they had added 40KB more at that > point). > (I seem to recall someone had scanned the SOSP version; I didn't save the > pointer, but if someone knows where it is, it would be interesting to look, > and see what it says - they seemed to update this paper on a regular basis > - > the copy included with V6 talks about the -11/70.) > > The system at that point had "a 1M byte fixed-head disk .. four moving-head > disk drives which each provide 2.5M bytes on removable disk cartridges, and > a single moving-head disk drive which uses removable 40M byte disk packs" > > The RS11 disks for the RF11 were 512KB, so either they'd added a second > one, > or switched to an RS04 (but that's a MASSBUS device). The big disk was an > RP03 so they had added an RP11, which wasn't present earlier. > > Noel > Noel, Thank you very much for this thoroughly researched and documented explanation. I hope that it will be of use to others as well. -Henry --00000000000098d1360600c2a471 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 at 20:49, Noel Chiapp= a <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > From: Henry Bent

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > there will be a lengthy addendum shortly.

The most useful thing is probably this:

=C2=A0 https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-= bin/utree.pl?file=3DV4/nsys/ken/low.s

which lists exactly what was there; not only the types, but how many of eac= h
there are. This is from 'nsys', which is slightly before the actual= V4, so
it's quite early. 'low.s' is inherently machine-specific; i.e. = different
machines would share most kernel files identically, but _not_ this one - unless they had _absolutely identical_ device sets. So this one is _probabl= y_
the one from the /45 in picture.

It shows:

=C2=A0 RK11
=C2=A0 RF11
=C2=A0 PC11
=C2=A0 TC11
=C2=A0 TM11

=C2=A0 1xKL11
=C2=A0 12xDC11
=C2=A0 1xDP11=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (synchronous serial)
=C2=A0 1xDN11=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (dial-out asynch control)

=C2=A0 1xDR11C=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(parallel port to -11/20)
=C2=A0 2xDC11=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Screw Works voice synthesizer) =C2=A0 1xDR11A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(voice response unit)
=C2=A0 1xDR11C=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(C/A/T typesetter)

(Line printer, card reader and RP11 are commented out; more about the RP11<= br> in a later message.


There's also this:

=C2=A0 https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-= bin/utree.pl?file=3DV4/nsys/ken/11-45

which is a bit hard to interpret, but I think might list what's in each= rack:
the TC11, RK11 (early ones), RF11 and TM11 (early ones) were large custom wire-wrapped backplanes which bolted into the front or back of a 19 inch rack; this:

=C2=A0 https://gunkies.org/wiki/RK11-C_disk_controlle= r

has an image of such an RK11. The "MOS 16-24" is probably a refer= ence to an
MS11:

=C2=A0 https://gunkies.org/wiki/MS11_Semico= nductor_Memory_System

which had to mount in the CPU backplane. The "MM" entries are lik= ely core
memory units; probably MM11-K's:

=C2=A0 https://gunkies.org/wiki/MM11-K_core_memory
since they seem to be 4KW each. (Maybe MM11-E's or 'F's, though= ; those are
also 4KW each.) I'm not sure what they "PL"s are - probably P= lessey core?
Anyway,it looks like the machine had 104KB total.


This file:

=C2=A0 https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi= -bin/utree.pl?file=3DV4/nsys/ken/conf.c

lists all the types of devices on the machine. One oddity is that it lists<= br> two RK11's; but if you look at the RK11 driver:

=C2=A0 https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-b= in/utree.pl?file=3DV4/nsys/dmr/rk.c

it's only set up to handle one physical controller. But there is this:<= br>
=C2=A0 #define=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0JRK=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/* temp */

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if (bp->b_dev.d_major=3D=3DJRK)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 d =3D bp->b_dev.= d_minor;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 else
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 d =3D bp->b_blkn= o%3;

so the two different major device entries appear to handle the same disks i= n
different ways ("d =3D bp->b_blkno%3" will spread a virtual dr= ive across three
physical drives).


Memory, it would have been hard to say (UNIX even then sized memory at star= t
up) but then I found that '11-45' file. I also found a copy of the = CACM
version of the UNIX paper:

=C2=A0 https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~brew= er/cs262/unix.pdf

which says the machine had 144KB (so they had added 40KB more at that point= ).
(I seem to recall someone had scanned the SOSP version; I didn't save t= he
pointer, but if someone knows where it is, it would be interesting to look,=
and see what it says - they seemed to update this paper on a regular basis = -
the copy included with V6 talks about the -11/70.)

The system at that point had "a 1M byte fixed-head disk .. four moving= -head
disk drives which each provide 2.5M bytes on removable disk cartridges, and=
a single moving-head disk drive which uses removable 40M byte disk packs&qu= ot;

The RS11 disks for the RF11 were 512KB, so either they'd added a second= one,
or switched to an RS04 (but that's a MASSBUS device). The big disk was = an
RP03 so they had added an RP11, which wasn't present earlier.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Noel

Noel,<= /div>
Thank you very much for this thoroughly researched and documented= explanation.=C2=A0 I hope that it will be of use to others as well.
<= div>
-Henry
--00000000000098d1360600c2a471--