From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12774 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2022 04:19:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Dec 2022 04:19:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4F4423E4; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 14:19:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com (mail-lf1-f45.google.com [209.85.167.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EF0F423E3 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 14:18:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id g7so13225594lfv.5 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 20:18:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yxhLHZlZq8qDRZ0b0Nn90b+r8CfOHQWivt6d8C7XvpE=; b=Dv/Kmcmt7UF0orinXzw9yU862bJBG7X1ry5EvRtmPR+vTS6HtzEqgtxaOo5LfnfUCb HpCP31cCJbzqHR+NL0I6STEd0VzYqi5fGXbZe7KF1PLw6Q4uqyz5vMtpVzqnoUR2x7mz j9ML6ie6MaQNrw7jtLOqiG68DMJkXE72lim8XlRFjjWX/Q7z3cjWbMVDpCyFI9y5sPT1 O08Pyp0SmjYcr8Dyp0U9aX7X2kbCrjqhgUXOYwGZ5uJTuXEUn9d/IlmGjs7fVujIDCS1 Sagk9mFx2hK+3MeJVAeNekvOdFa5YZQzsZ4IO9h/AW0Q9AyYkW8yGYIaiVvwKU99cCF6 65wA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yxhLHZlZq8qDRZ0b0Nn90b+r8CfOHQWivt6d8C7XvpE=; b=qTyomusDB0EBaapVy3q9ZDLXCZbmmJjhodtBjrtbQnxetZoxskHGdUleOYgCMIy17z E7WxuLps9/SSYnmwMMzS51kltJ058vVgP/hu4S7/W9Ti1yOdIbZK8wETlhXfH+QTSL1n y4HgUvNZ0h5iksg74j4JGCIfvHW11caSpWFg/xzKXwLKA8I7TitZhM7WEDUGmpete886 iBiSqeqzgNHAqY+UKNxezFu690NseKB0daALMj7g4y8zCYUfBX1MSD06eue51aSdtrk2 3d8IIuvEkkqP9nO274QJ9yLCW+i41GNpJa3rUQ2wjuesOCx0MXUV7x+JxP79fho+UNyZ muMA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pktoO0NU0R1dGk5OW+y1LqwXM2hLBJrpzg7lbxrigo4jMCfY9KS mo0a+G9t1iN0GHVgo9ox6shPMdcJGGsvgZICHJW/+kYa X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf71ohysckIjDZcAcstkE7VhpTI9QTTaMgOAd37isdysTi2naph+Pj/W/biP8VKoTorw90HQwBNJfPcH+ClIOPk= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4f4a:0:b0:4b5:5c01:76c4 with SMTP id a10-20020a194f4a000000b004b55c0176c4mr8246665lfk.56.1670732274399; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 20:17:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20221211021628.GM8801@mcvoy.com> <20221211023207.GN8801@mcvoy.com> <20221211023955.GP8801@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20221211023955.GP8801@mcvoy.com> From: Dan Cross Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 23:17:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bafd5d05ef85ab98" Message-ID-Hash: A3QGJO277VEYXJO63DPKGBI44FEVXWJU X-Message-ID-Hash: A3QGJO277VEYXJO63DPKGBI44FEVXWJU X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000bafd5d05ef85ab98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:40 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 07:33:54PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 7:32 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 07:26:09PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 7:16 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow, Kermit is still around? I think the last time I used that was > > > > > around 1985. > > > > > > > > > > Are modems still a thing? > > > > > > > > I used it last year... without a modem. > > > > > > What problem does it solve that is not solved? > > > > Talking to my DEC Rainbow and downloading files to it? It was the go-to > > protocol of choice. Xmodem is available, but messes up file sizes. kermit > > just works with this device that's so slow it drops characters at 2400 > baud. > > OK, that is cool, but my question was what problem does it solve that > we face today? Other than talking to 30-40 year old hardware. Why is > Kermit still a thing? > Aside from talking to legacy systems, the Kermit protocol probably has little to recommend it (xmodem specifically still gets a bit of a workout in embedded/firmware spaces because it's dead simple). Kermit as a communications swiss army knife of a program is probably more useful. That said, I could see it for downloading bulk data from scada systems over a slow link (RF, serial, or maybe some weird 7 bit thing). I tend to doubt that's happening much with Kermit these days, though. - Dan C. --000000000000bafd5d05ef85ab98 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:40 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 07:33:54PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 7:32 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:<= br> >
> > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 07:26:09PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 7:16 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>= wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wow, Kermit is still around?=C2=A0 I think the last tim= e I used that was
> > > > around 1985.
> > > >
> > > > Are modems still a thing?
> > >
> > > I used it last year... without a modem.
> >
> > What problem does it solve that is not solved?
>
> Talking to my DEC Rainbow and downloading files to it? It was the go-t= o
> protocol of choice. Xmodem is available, but messes up file sizes. ker= mit
> just works with this device that's so slow it drops characters at = 2400 baud.

OK, that is cool, but my question was what problem does it solve that
we face today?=C2=A0 Other than talking to 30-40 year old hardware.=C2=A0 W= hy is
Kermit still a thing?

Aside from talking to legacy systems, the Kermit proto= col probably has little to recommend it (xmodem specifically still gets a b= it of a workout in embedded/firmware spaces because it's dead simple). = Kermit as a communications swiss army knife of a program is probably more u= seful.

That said, I coul= d see it for downloading bulk data from scada systems over a slow link (RF,= serial, or maybe some weird 7 bit thing). I tend to doubt that's happe= ning much with Kermit these days, though.

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

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