From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25199 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2023 15:07:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jan 2023 15:07:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A4842466; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 01:06:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-f174.google.com (mail-pf1-f174.google.com [209.85.210.174]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0069042466 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 01:06:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-f174.google.com with SMTP id c26so1679980pfp.10 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 07:06:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AhIfq3slPzhibsSRBgPWHZhI6DXdDnkQUJvOSaWT2hU=; b=N6hE3w9b3OWgZmrxPxfsROVyFX/AH4oJWxTaP2k1xvFcs6eRlLVJ9HotWcfDpzv364 NJ7n21j8CrTxzjiDIpsG9TO8pELdw3729ZXqsDl8pVAWDIEMgr7q2QNGgkDAKKGrbcaU qred47+9BRjTragY6IWcXmykn1kQbLpesdS+wWqHZlx/qq477nzsmTJL8MNPvgF66OYM Gea3SXG+kU6cm3lg16yNdZbrB7BkMMZ1fMquUU3jIKD0o1wDLNNBdvt+1bqFfSgR8C76 F3qD3WeKTtFAWAHH9r1QwZ8VS+2LfmjmiLM2Wm3+gEub/o1v3DW9BL9CXhEf1f9jBZyt 12Qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=AhIfq3slPzhibsSRBgPWHZhI6DXdDnkQUJvOSaWT2hU=; b=i7dGXnNMNvHAKOfdU6aY0Em6Lf4RL3TfFTFihZSp7BeiLJKMAfS09oEypTdnhikGmK jzCE3FRRhCOjtHF1zn6ywODM2PYiBmggpmmpkp+1qf5qz0+qpwNfXe1lLPNhGpXPYvwj tPbDKnLSJk4pZgEUxMrlvcRGVoPLtMT0co9zZjMd5jgxYQyVes34o2U6ChKUMuSgTe+6 e4DP7J6B1hLDr9xqjeSbin5xaYLbLHXKHHp6fUddtARkEiA4tAme899s9u9B7u8gEY+t Aai32StVEa+ufa38xeFof+Sf9Ss1zdpBjLVPR3Dv0zbaQdBzZlj6RkEcufSqTc33WIjk Ur0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kolVqyEels7AAVFFbVD27Dq454P7L+IjCtyW1+y6/aYYcBM319x vgNecx6fRMQlcfueqsd4QKs8ZCvyj10Q7DS2p/mqpTGPJ+0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXt+lXSL3gYRvFlawX9QSk110b7uICBFY8O+/ghKeRlPEZH0PVX4TCSdDTi1tOEBrPXwq21dw1u8Qk6hM1DJmEw= X-Received: by 2002:a62:b516:0:b0:58d:e4e5:b918 with SMTP id y22-20020a62b516000000b0058de4e5b918mr770326pfe.2.1674140754439; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 07:05:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:05:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: Liam Proven Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: U6MCL4PHYPIWT6XDVST7KKGAQFROLBQE X-Message-ID-Hash: U6MCL4PHYPIWT6XDVST7KKGAQFROLBQE X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 9:46 AM Liam Proven wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 17:20, Larry McVoy wrote: > > Pretty unrealistic to expect the users to suddenly have the time to do > > kernel dev. Solaris opened sourced itself and it's dead. > > I believe 0x1DE computer are working on that. :-) It's true we run illumos on the host. That's ideally transparent to users, though. Outside of Oxide, illumos is used in several places, but it's fair to say that it's nowhere near as popular as Linux or the BSDs. illumos is, as far as we know, the only actively-maintained open source System V derivative. Is it Unix? I don't know; there's definitely AT&T code in there. The kernel binary is called "unix", if that matters. But I don't think anyone has bothered to keep up with the UNIX(TM) trademark certification. To the extent your article was concerned with systems that do that, I think you were largely right (though macOS doesn't seem like it's going anywhere anytime soon). But to say that illumos, or the BSDs for that matter, aren't "Unix" in terms of interface or use seems incorrect. I don't think that Larry is wrong arout Solaris, but I think that Oracle re-closing the source probably also had a lot to do with it. Still, OpenSolaris never gained critical mass; maybe it was just too little too late. It is striking how Unix has repeatedly suffered through corporate shortsightedness; how much of Linux's success is due to being free of that? > > As for BSD, they pretty much killed themselves by all the in-fighting and > > the lack of someone like Linus. That was obvious 30 years ago and it > > hasn't changed. > > I entirely agree. Meh. I don't know. I'll make a prediction: at least one of the BSDs will outlive Linux. Linux right now sort of reminds me of commercial Unix in the 90s. Personally, I think something's going to come from out of left field and displace it within the next 15 years, just like Linux displaced (and yes, killed) commercial Unix. Compatibility shims for the API will continue to exist, but the implementation will be very different. - Dan C.