From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25484 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2023 13:27:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Aug 2023 13:27:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7AE43182; Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:27:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com (mail-lj1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 383A743177; Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:27:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b9aa1d3029so71376241fa.2; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 06:27:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691414830; x=1692019630; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Js9NzZFjbagmrcUT5Nuj9MkJ5fOXzzt3E83Mpv8HJxo=; b=PQxApV4mC+nNQQ08nwgAkddxHTjl7mVtMnLVdYqidWNfYZpbE/lB3wh9r2U0QLycsf gBkeMNr2mhl0ygUI3X/ZWeVoOU5abBScLBH0hwa+niDZtWiTgksn81X4UPzQqKcFfLTL pRzWAWHdJBBQwinwaaTTeKVM/RkWSkqvNU8cK+oLI5WAl7t3sMZQjKLbpzJhTNvSCzXu eE6eaGu9apLlXdC69Epaj+B636jzleJeHE8R1nw7vJ1v4TSi7cmsMJbXXhKOvwq1PmbI xrTSv+cWuCOtS3STt8W9vMMkr5b7xqA/p3goOkZ9sYYrMK5KYwnztxAhHJYp+Zv2M0ZJ RsyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691414830; x=1692019630; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Js9NzZFjbagmrcUT5Nuj9MkJ5fOXzzt3E83Mpv8HJxo=; b=aza0gAo8WHEn8AT6LgKfVLzvn108FlnRs+bJpXVEav6TkmZEqH7VJPqQGWq4IB4ewx mdTRu5sRvnE9Jgq1OGZfjJZCU0r85tKacBHFFhK98U1nxd2lYduKR16yAnYgIC65c2/5 nkdlRZbedk1E2peU2fP7wLP4wzaw74+zu6maSvarRW9TrkSoeTq5fLjY0K5hKXWmtQp0 K2SE4wUKxIvDjNpPcMx1Bt9Yyx9u6q9bDZkNs0TP/LXJCVO/h9zNjUHAJnjAUUh+DXIc MeXTO7WVXzjsmhprJfO5PfoPY1uRSN8ydU0E+5ZYBqzcdP+XfPpyYCQIUSFxkIbAo3tO ac9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwEw3XjyjCWrfnPRFwK8V/ovZpKYjiGl6scYGrgUU2op0p2JYcM UrFCfC28xqtO+GdlU5XmB2gvosd8FFZ8lkGOd2w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHj/+yNOBa0UXWytvUk3OrWh5qkhdNYBxWkXZ6Mk48aSTU/PQEAsfvZTzYye1sufBY4mqFQMuH5l93nHTJOcDE= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9d86:0:b0:2b6:ebc6:1e86 with SMTP id c6-20020a2e9d86000000b002b6ebc61e86mr6247478ljj.47.1691414829492; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 06:27:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <944EF3AD-8BB2-4B89-84A8-B759AB1C2790@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: <944EF3AD-8BB2-4B89-84A8-B759AB1C2790@canb.auug.org.au> From: Dan Cross Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2023 09:26:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: steve jenkin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: EH5SIKQAB4E3BSRNBQNYLFSEVY5IUL3N X-Message-ID-Hash: EH5SIKQAB4E3BSRNBQNYLFSEVY5IUL3N X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS , Warren Toomey , Liam Proven X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Help with a Unix-ish project? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 1:30=E2=80=AFAM steve jenkin wrote: > six years later=E2=80=A6 > > A note for the list: > > Warren (in. IMHO, a stroke of genius) changed the Repo from xv6-minix to = xv6-freebsd. > > Cool. xv6 came up again last week with a Hacker News posted, followed by an article in the Register, about another xv6 clone written in Rust: octox (https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/28/octox_v6_unix_in_rust/). Octox bills itself as being written entirely in Rust, including the userspace utilities. In the Register article, author Liam Proven (who I believe is on this list, Cc'ed here) mentioned my own rxv64, but seems to have missed part of the point when talking about language statistics (rxv64 left much of the userspace code written in C, except for the parts of the C library I wrote, which are Rust...I do provide header files, though). The point, of course, is that the implementation language used by the kernel need not be the same as that used by userspace code; the interface is instead through a contract with the kernel. What better way to demonstrate this than write some of the userspace code in a language that isn't Rust? In this case, the utilities were already more or less written in C. Bakul pointed this out on the Hacker News story about octox, but it didn't make it to the Register article and of course was largely missed by the crowd on the Orange Site. Octox looks like it would be pretty hard to use from a language other than Rust, honestly; at least, one would likely have to provide a wrapper library in another language (it appears that all of the names in the octox userspace library are mangled). And of course, octox is not 100% Rust, as the Register article claimed; it has some assembly language bits, but those are hidden inside of Rust source files (e.g., https://github.com/o8vm/octox/blob/main/src/kernel/swtch.rs), and it generates system call stubs at build time that expand to inline `ecall` instructions (octox target RISC-V, whereas rxv64 targets x86_64). I've avoided commenting publicly on the octox code, but I will say that it has a much better README file than rxv64! - Dan C.