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* [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
@ 2019-01-07 21:21 Warner Losh
  2019-01-07 21:27 ` Dave Horsfall
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-01-07 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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So what's the origin of the name 'strategy'  for the I/O routine in Unix
that drivers provide? Everything I've found in the early papers just says
that's what the routine is called. Is there a story behind why it was
chosen? My own theory is that it's in the sense of 'coping strategy' when
the driver needs to service more I/O for the upper layers, but that's just
a WAG.

Warner

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* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-07 21:21 [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy' Warner Losh
@ 2019-01-07 21:27 ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-07 21:28 ` Dan Cross
  2019-01-09 20:51 ` Clem Cole
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-01-07 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Mon, 7 Jan 2019, Warner Losh wrote:

> So what's the origin of the name 'strategy'  for the I/O routine in Unix 
> that drivers provide? Everything I've found in the early papers just 
> says that's what the routine is called. Is there a story behind why it 
> was chosen? My own theory is that it's in the sense of 'coping strategy' 
> when the driver needs to service more I/O for the upper layers, but 
> that's just a WAG.

My guess is that it's supposed to optimise disk access; Ken may know.

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-07 21:21 [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy' Warner Losh
  2019-01-07 21:27 ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-01-07 21:28 ` Dan Cross
  2019-01-07 22:28   ` Erik E. Fair
  2019-01-09 20:51 ` Clem Cole
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2019-01-07 21:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 4:22 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> So what's the origin of the name 'strategy'  for the I/O routine in Unix
> that drivers provide? Everything I've found in the early papers just says
> that's what the routine is called. Is there a story behind why it was
> chosen? My own theory is that it's in the sense of 'coping strategy' when
> the driver needs to service more I/O for the upper layers, but that's just
> a WAG.
>

I always thought it had to do with computing the optimal strategy for
writing blocks to the disc device....  I wonder where I got that impression
from.  Perhaps reading Bach?

        - Dan C.

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* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-07 21:28 ` Dan Cross
@ 2019-01-07 22:28   ` Erik E. Fair
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Erik E. Fair @ 2019-01-07 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society


>From: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:28:42 -0500
>
>I always thought it had to do with computing the optimal strategy for
>writing blocks to the disc device....  I wonder where I got that impression
>from.  Perhaps reading Bach?

Perhaps from reading the strategy routines of disk device drivers? That's where disksort() routine to perform HDA seek minimization via elevator sort is called. Still true in NetBSD today, though some of the routine names have changed. That would seem worth of being called a "strategy".

	Erik Fair

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
@ 2019-01-09  5:42 Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-09 12:02 ` Dan Cross
  2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-01-09  5:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Tue, 8 Jan 2019, Warner Losh wrote:

> The name seems obvious because I've seen it for the last 30 years. But 
> I've not seen it used elsewhere, nor have I seen it documented except in 
> relationship to Unix. It could have been called blkio or bufio or bio or 
> even just work or morework and still been as meaningful. VMS uses the 
> FDT table to process the IRPs sent down. RT-11 has a series of entry 
> points that have boring names. Other systems have a start routine 
> (though more often that is a common routine used by both the queue me 
> and isr functions). There is a wide diversity here...

I must admit that this is an interesting thread, just as long as it wasn't 
called XXoptimize() unless you wanted a backlash from British English 
speakers :-)

In hindsight I suppose that XXstrategy() is obvious, but back then, as you 
ask?  Dunno, but Ken might (if he's reading this thread).

One of my favo[u]rites is sched(); some pronounce it as "shed" and others 
as "sked".  Another American/British thing, I think...

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "Two nations divided by a common language"?

I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house move) 
but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...

ObGripe: Could anyone replying to the digest version please take the 
trouble to update the Subject: line accordingly?  I've now put the 
original back as a courtesy to others, but I shouldn't have to; it's as 
bad as top-posting.

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09  5:42 Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-01-09 12:02 ` Dan Cross
  2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2019-01-09 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 12:43 AM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "Two nations divided by a common language"?
>

Apocryphal, actually, but based on a line from one of George Bernard Shaw's
plays.

        - Dan C.

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* [TUHS] Lions book (not  Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09  5:42 Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-09 12:02 ` Dan Cross
@ 2019-01-09 15:12 ` " Bakul Shah
  2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
                     ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2019-01-09 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:42:32 +1100 Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
>
> I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house move) 
> but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...

https://github.com/kanner/lions-book

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
@ 2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
  2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
  2019-01-09 17:20     ` Andy Kosela
  2019-01-09 22:24   ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-09 23:09   ` Cág
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-01-09 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 8:13 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:42:32 +1100 Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house
> move)
> > but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
>
> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book


Cool! I have two copies: one bootleg photocopy from the 80's and one copy
of the paper that has the picture of the geeks on the cover photocopying
something... This is a lot easier to grep :)

Warner

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* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
  2019-01-09 16:50       ` Warner Losh
  2019-01-09 17:50       ` Bakul Shah
  2019-01-09 17:20     ` Andy Kosela
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2019-01-09 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Ditto, (actually I have three -- two copies of the new one to show some of
the younger engineers at work). Having the text is wonderful, but it does
seems like a heretical act to be grepping through sources as Tex files;
when the original was in roff.

I wonder if the author as well as Dennis are both chuckling somewhere at
all of us ;-)
ᐧ

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:10 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 8:13 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:42:32 +1100 Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house
>> move)
>> > but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
>>
>> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book
>
>
> Cool! I have two copies: one bootleg photocopy from the 80's and one copy
> of the paper that has the picture of the geeks on the cover photocopying
> something... This is a lot easier to grep :)
>
> Warner
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
@ 2019-01-09 16:50       ` Warner Losh
  2019-01-09 22:53         ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-09 17:50       ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-01-09 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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What was amusing was seeing what I thought was a copy tucked away on the
shelves of Kirk McKusick's library, next to weird things with odd labels
like "BSD 4.5" (really something between what we know as BSD 4.0 and BSD
4.1 when the notion was the next BSD release tape would be called BSD5)
next to more mundane ones like "V6" and "V32" etc. It's definitely a piece
of folklore that turns up in the oddest places...

Warner

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 9:20 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Ditto, (actually I have three -- two copies of the new one to show some of
> the younger engineers at work). Having the text is wonderful, but it does
> seems like a heretical act to be grepping through sources as Tex files;
> when the original was in roff.
>
> I wonder if the author as well as Dennis are both chuckling somewhere at
> all of us ;-)
> ᐧ
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:10 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 8:13 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:42:32 +1100 Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house
>>> move)
>>> > but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
>>>
>>> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book
>>
>>
>> Cool! I have two copies: one bootleg photocopy from the 80's and one copy
>> of the paper that has the picture of the geeks on the cover photocopying
>> something... This is a lot easier to grep :)
>>
>> Warner
>>
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
  2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
@ 2019-01-09 17:20     ` Andy Kosela
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Andy Kosela @ 2019-01-09 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wednesday, January 9, 2019, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 8:13 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:42:32 +1100 Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house
>> move)
>> > but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
>>
>> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book
>
>
> Cool! I have two copies: one bootleg photocopy from the 80's and one copy
> of the paper that has the picture of the geeks on the cover photocopying
> something... This is a lot easier to grep :)
>
>
>
That one with hackers on the cover is still available on Amazon[1].  It was
published in 1996.

—Andy

[1]
https://www.amazon.com/Lions-Commentary-Unix-John/dp/1573980137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547054228&sr=8-1&keywords=john+lion+unix+6

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* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
  2019-01-09 16:50       ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-01-09 17:50       ` Bakul Shah
  2019-01-09 17:55         ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2019-01-09 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 11:20:28 -0500 Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> Ditto, (actually I have three -- two copies of the new one to show some of
> the younger engineers at work). Having the text is wonderful, but it does
> seems like a heretical act to be grepping through sources as Tex files;
> when the original was in roff.

From the preface:
  The co-operation of the ``nroff'' program
  must also be mentioned. Without it,
  these notes could never have been produced in this form. However it has
  yielded some of its more enigmatic
  secrets so reluctantly, that the
  author's gratitude is indeed mixed.

:-)

At any rate use of the CM fonts is a bit jarring.

Everyone who downloaded these sources for grepping has bought
a paper copy of the Lions book, right?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 17:50       ` Bakul Shah
@ 2019-01-09 17:55         ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-01-09 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 10:50 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 11:20:28 -0500 Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ditto, (actually I have three -- two copies of the new one to show some
> of
> > the younger engineers at work). Having the text is wonderful, but it does
> > seems like a heretical act to be grepping through sources as Tex files;
> > when the original was in roff.
>
> From the preface:
>   The co-operation of the ``nroff'' program
>   must also be mentioned. Without it,
>   these notes could never have been produced in this form. However it has
>   yielded some of its more enigmatic
>   secrets so reluctantly, that the
>   author's gratitude is indeed mixed.
>
> :-)
>
> At any rate use of the CM fonts is a bit jarring.
>
> Everyone who downloaded these sources for grepping has bought
> a paper copy of the Lions book, right?
>

Yea. But the github version doesn't have the 'appendix' that the Amazon
version has with the listing with the line numbers as corresponding to the
book... :(

Warner

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* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-07 21:21 [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy' Warner Losh
  2019-01-07 21:27 ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-07 21:28 ` Dan Cross
@ 2019-01-09 20:51 ` Clem Cole
  2019-01-09 23:30   ` Dave Horsfall
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2019-01-09 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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below....

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 4:22 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> So what's the origin of the name 'strategy'  for the I/O routine in Unix
> that drivers provide? Everything I've found in the early papers just says
> that's what the routine is called. Is there a story behind why it was
> chosen? My own theory is that it's in the sense of 'coping strategy' when
> the driver needs to service more I/O for the upper layers, but that's just
> a WAG.
>

FWIW:   Warren has a scan of the 1976 USG document:   "UNIX Program
Description"  Program Generic PG-1C300 Issue 2
From the section called:  BIO01 - Block I/O, on the 5th page I think  there
seems to be a hint of why it was called strategy.   Under the description
of the breada routine are the words:

*Read ahead is a technique whereby an attempt is made to anticipate where
the next read request on a device will be and to preread that data. In this
manner, the program requesting the read will not be subjected to positional
and rotational latency or device queuing, if read ahead is completed before
the next block is requested. There are different strategies that can be
used for-doing read ahead. On UNIX, all reads (not including physical I/O)
result in a full 512 byte block being read from· the device. Smaller
amounts of data could be read if a program requested it, however, since
disks transfer times are small in comparison to positional and rotational
latency times, any extra transfer is inconsequential. Also, most DEC disks
are designed around a 512 byte sector and while fewer than 512 bytes may be
specified, the disk controller is busy until a full sector has been
transferred. By reading the full 512 bytes, any subsequent read or write
which references data within that block will not have to be lead (if the
block does not leave the system). Besides the advantage gained by reading a
minimum of 512 bytes instead of the desired quantities, the next block is
anticipated and read under certain conditions. Thus, one request will spawn
several read requests to bring data into the system. A routine for finding
a block that is already in memory (bio.c/incore) must be available to
determine whether any reads need be done and the read ahead strategy must
be capable of determining when read ahead should be discontinued so that
superfluous reads are not generated.*

*The strategy adopted under UNIX is to pursue read ahead as long as a
process is reading (512 byte blocks) sequentially through a file or a
device. When the first non sequential read is requested, read ahead is
discontinued and is not restarted until sequential accesses begin again. *

*Bio.c/breada carries out the read ahead operation. Starting and stopping
read ahead and determining which block number in a file or on a device is
the read ahead block ("rablkno") is done by the higher level function
rdwri.c/readi. *

*In implementing the read ahead strategy, bio.c/breada makes use of
bio.c/incore to determine whether a block is already in memory. For the
desired block "blkno", the bio.c/breada function behaves exactly like
bio.c/bread. That is, a synchronous read is performed and the process
requesting the read is roadblocked until it is completed. Since the desired
block may already be within system. bio.c/incore is called to look for that
block among the buffers on the freelist (bfreelist"). If the block is
already in memory. bio.c/bread is called to get the buffer. If the desired
biock has not already been read by a previous read operation then
bio.c/getblk is called to see if the block is possibly on a device queue
waiting for its turn to be read. If that is not the case, a buffer is
allocated for the read and the appropriate device strategy routine is
called. *

*Bio.c/breada does not wait (yet) for the read to complete. Rather, it goes
through a similar operation for the read ahead block "rablkno".
Bio.c/incore is called to search the free list of buffers ("bfreelist") to
see if the block was read in a previous read operation. Nothing will be
done, of course, if the read ahead block is in memory. If it is not in
memory, bio.c/getblk is called to search the device queue for it or to
allocate a block so that it may be read. The device strategy module is
called to read the read ahead block, however, the buffer will be marked
(B_ASYNC in "b_flags") so that when the read completes the buffer is
returned to the pool of available buffers. Bio.c/breada then waits for the
read of the the desired block to complete. It does not wait for the read
ahead block . *

*An external variable "raflg" is available for turning off all read ahead
on alldevices. "Raflg" is initialized to one, however, by changing it to
zero read ahead is eliminated. As with bio.c/bread any error detection is
done as a result of the interrupt handler indicating an error to
bio.c/lncore and a system error (in "u_error") being posted. These errors
are of no concern to bio.c/breada or bio.c/bread and are used only at
higher levels of software to return errors to the user. *


ᐧ

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* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not  Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
  2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-01-09 22:24   ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-01-09 23:09   ` Cág
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-01-09 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Bakul Shah wrote:

>> I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house move)
>> but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
>
> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book

Wow - many thanks!  The most photocopied book in the world, as I recall...

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 16:50       ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-01-09 22:53         ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-01-09 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Silly idea: is there any way that the original books (red and orange) can 
be legally reprinted somehow?  Surely the original nroff sources must be 
somewhere...  Yeah, I know about the Copyright Act, but permission from 
his estate?

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Lions book (not  Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
  2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
  2019-01-09 22:24   ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-01-09 23:09   ` Cág
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Cág @ 2019-01-09 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Bakul Shah wrote:
>> I no longer have my Lions books on me, sadly enough (lost in a house 
>> move)
>> but there certainly were some peculiar names in the kernel...
> https://github.com/kanner/lions-book

Something to be printed and read once again.
I remember I had a couple of handmade copies of bwk's C tutorial from 
'74,
printed from the converted to LaTeX documents...

--
caóc


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy'
  2019-01-09 20:51 ` Clem Cole
@ 2019-01-09 23:30   ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-01-09 23:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Is it just me, or do others here also think of bread() when writing 
"bread" on a shopping list?

I've been using Unix since it first appeared in Australia, so I guess I'm 
now permanently damaged :-)

Then again, during a late-night session at work getting a pair of Telebit 
NetBlazers to work, $BOSS asked me to order a pizza for us, so I picked up 
the phone and started dialling an IP address...  And according to aus.net 
(I think) I was not the only one to do that :-)  Oh, and I got to stay 
overnight in a nearby motel on his sixpence, because I was simply too 
buggered to make the 70km drive back home...

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

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2019-01-07 21:21 [TUHS] Origin of the name 'strategy' Warner Losh
2019-01-07 21:27 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-01-07 21:28 ` Dan Cross
2019-01-07 22:28   ` Erik E. Fair
2019-01-09 20:51 ` Clem Cole
2019-01-09 23:30   ` Dave Horsfall
2019-01-09  5:42 Dave Horsfall
2019-01-09 12:02 ` Dan Cross
2019-01-09 15:12 ` [TUHS] Lions book (not " Bakul Shah
2019-01-09 16:09   ` Warner Losh
2019-01-09 16:20     ` Clem Cole
2019-01-09 16:50       ` Warner Losh
2019-01-09 22:53         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-01-09 17:50       ` Bakul Shah
2019-01-09 17:55         ` Warner Losh
2019-01-09 17:20     ` Andy Kosela
2019-01-09 22:24   ` Dave Horsfall
2019-01-09 23:09   ` Cág

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