From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7521 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2023 15:18:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jan 2023 15:18:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00736425D4; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:18:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f51.google.com (mail-lf1-f51.google.com [209.85.167.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C156425D3 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:18:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f51.google.com with SMTP id h24so19496986lfv.6 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:18:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bEndK/9odwHFeWOyF76gn9LMscmg3e96sZZ6DS8eP/A=; b=CrgrVKmyitaqPWeIjHr6lSlMFWOKaLPQ1nwEW5NRUwjSXIaseGRHueg079pJIIQh0F 7NYduhiquz9kPjwJStIPm5ogLbnN0kxKUzOnqf6XFFlFdQikwUPnUqOxIln0zAXg+IHR zO9XaXmdOzn9huARCXqQzgV4+F7IoFvkt79mM6Nf4ni94nzBCdOIOTUeYsW/WZKuMATq 7YaNNmW0V7E3o/ka85MS+HJNEUhffSB6t+iTiu5cHZsVxUryZ3jhaRCBdObHbwMQvGVD ORzoksLARB+q5ddmlTimm8VcE7YTdBxJ4T0ej0K8+I9S7mCcAs2hKmmLXRhye0B69TR4 GXEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bEndK/9odwHFeWOyF76gn9LMscmg3e96sZZ6DS8eP/A=; b=WkcZ49mSz5e0gUlpf50oDux6XcODudO+aM3pXAWT1VdEzr2sewlJrcAG6p3neruu8X P5fw67nN/OHh4/0nYy75LVBQMD9kVrtAoo/pdsDD/iW6I1Lm+Y+wik912BoXeXe0kBYE QUk7dTnc/uPjIihrYxsabZNv2HrhXYOw5UV6Hppqoba1kD9cXZ1HQ9GYay5eMdw9yuEk 0m6kVzGWgU1RrY4A6QD+Wsv38dg9o56m4CsJ2UBuSHg8UzpLqkYEyizuLTufcxa9UhaJ lvd2PyybjvzeY9bPJMH/SIQBnk/pMQ3jUBbW8/G++3B7k2tfCuSeKTHi1cPiwRCJxg/O iX6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpADZ8ZPjilEXNMx7Rv/Tzh1kG0yO1zYqbL9E4az+UHWx5cv5jh rvPHSAcj9mmO0H+gfJe4qg1G8LqHZtdZY8edEhBzFxDV X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXs0mi0Ohq7zUvR5UNQ2d1R/ZteOxvSeO0/c6v5TX5n1Z9UQh6aURAV3NQWFaE5b5sILRUo48Z3yvFNymycjho0= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4f0d:0:b0:4d5:86a8:55d1 with SMTP id k13-20020ac24f0d000000b004d586a855d1mr6123219lfr.155.1675091822193; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:17:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202301300750.30U7oQTh013304@freefriends.org> <20230130150219.GD12306@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230130150219.GD12306@mcvoy.com> From: Dan Cross Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:16:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: CB6CZJCNAVC5IT7EEULIL4EUUHE6FHL4 X-Message-ID-Hash: CB6CZJCNAVC5IT7EEULIL4EUUHE6FHL4 X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: FD 2 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 10:02 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 07:09:55PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote: > > And then we have pttys, speaking of pitys. > > I'm not seeing how you do stuff like ssh into a remote system and have > job control, etc, work without some sort of tty. You don't. But perhaps that model isn't super great. There was no job control on plan9 and I can't say I ever missed it. If I needed another terminal, I just swept open another window. Job control, even remote access a la SSH (or telnet, or rlogin), are a bit of an historical accident. If, instead, my computing environment is the set of shared resources I've imported into my system, then I don't necessarily need something like that. The plan9 `cpu` command, for access to a remote CPU server, conceptually brought the CPU server to you, not the other way around. It was a very different model. - Dan C.