From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5634 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2022 18:37:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Jan 2022 18:37:43 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 952A39CFDE; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 04:37:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09B99CFC8; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 04:37:08 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="pOsZ/+Lw"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1367D9CFC8; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 04:37:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f43.google.com (mail-ot1-f43.google.com [209.85.210.43]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEC409C78F for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 04:37:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f43.google.com with SMTP id t4-20020a05683022e400b00591aaf48277so1264616otc.13 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:37:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kScsaknhA8GjMwd26w0vomov0hP3g7T5FntgSx9uXVk=; b=pOsZ/+Lwp9dPn9ist06FGJ1oNHFPNIkIi8FI0zXCEZtKqPThNE1D+bIjb0+l8V4xHU 9WiJlmJRqU9zRWDH1v7CODjU6lt1SsBcF4nQNiP+UxsDahNDA/mtUXmsm+LpqRI710Km 92sNTpblOOFgLg5/NKTi7vMVYRfc4o3Rb/IKYAkGlxyDx3T4zuewniVJSdIlt5EAuTBa oNV4ftmtFycstQKirDBnL5lJ+LP2PT55A2N0NQSHj3BjH9I2lBmb350YanXyxjaFsVpp zL9medayMq1t+0Lc09SKcd64uWorFq+312rCLSqiVWh4T34aDoa4riuhB+Gd+FDrfbpa xY6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kScsaknhA8GjMwd26w0vomov0hP3g7T5FntgSx9uXVk=; b=HXDYB2c0rkUuWKbqthe7qqzrEC1ITeg8It2IZafoOFLgK2Z9MgzvffdZ8Hv63OL2gM 4/gd4irs75t1gXnCCndCgnmE78hvMI/rGlTyq9tLdkR8wGjLBIpDn9OTLYCRIL/lxnqS 7+iV9B1vPTEwKrskgVGt9f6vX4uZMug+BO9msQODbbAKXO6orie7/uGSx3Paooc1ECq2 u7/DnQXn5ybLf38iV+1HJp1z+V+3XjR+ZuZ13V9sqvs6KyUgXEto0K/AfK3p8mY6eKyh 3ukRA8nY/jCC1BAG3LZOegWJM8nCrF0b19I6h8lSlJ5hZLUqYwEODgg8VTximO3j/YwI n75w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FH+LqMn+2zaMMkLPcBxv58/C7J9FEKfgDzViJLT8gf2Q8WpjG pRL6urT59SVqkXTKFJrdz+4QC8BYmDQqkTIAMb8toYTp X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxsri06korT20KeMOQcYzx2KxZlZBZ5hE9ECymZQDXteTi6YHXYyJecoLsp8UKKkjlB0GLcxnfGFxs51ToGRiE= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6acb:: with SMTP id m11mr4282767otq.375.1641926223469; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:37:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dan Cross Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:36:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c1f1805d552bd1f" Subject: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC. X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000004c1f1805d552bd1f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I've been meaning to ask about this for a while.... "... The reason why is because there was tremendous antagonism between New York and L.A. L.A. was, you know, full of color, full of acid, full of hippies, and we were not like that. We dressed in black and white. We did not like free love. ..... We took amphetamine; they took LSD. They were, you know, sort of loving and happy, and we were - we weren't really evil, we were more intellectual, more about art." [Mary Woronov, in an interview with NPR's Terry Gross on "Fresh Air", talking about New York City, Warhol's Factory and shows in Los Angeles while touring with the Velvet Underground: http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=241437872] Note: I am not suggesting that anyone involved with Unix ever took amphetamines, nor, despite the usual crack about LSD and BSD, that anyone on the west coast was taking acid, though Markov's "What the Dormouse Said" would indicate that many of you WERE tripping. It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts. Notable work in Utah, Colorado and Chicago aside, it seems the bulk of early Unix work happened in either the greater New York metro area in northern New Jersey or the greater Bay area around San Francisco. Notable work was also done in Massachusetts, but again, that's a coastal state and I think it's fair to say that most of that was inside the route 128 corridor. Of course work was done internationally, but I'm particularly curious about differences in US culture here, and how they influenced things. The question is, to what extent did differences in coastal cultures influence things like design aesthetics? I think it's is accurate to characterize early BTL Unix by it's minimalism, and others have echoed this (cf. Richard Gabriel in the "Worse is Better" papers). But similarly, BSD has always felt like a larger system -- didn't Lions go as far as to quip about the succinctness of 6th Edition being "fixed" by 4BSD? Anyway, I believe it is fair to say that early Unix has a rather distinct feel from later BSD-derived systems and the two did evolve in different geographic locations. Furthermore, the world was not as connected then as it is now. So to what extent, if any, was this a function of the larger cultural forces at play near where that work was taking place? - Dan C. --0000000000004c1f1805d552bd1f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've been meaning to ask about this for a while= ....

"... The reason why is because there was tremendous antagonism= between New York and L.A. L.A. was, you know, full of color, full of acid,= full of hippies, and we were not like that.

We dressed in black and= white. We did not like free love. ..... We took amphetamine; they took LSD= . They were, you know, sort of loving and happy, and we were - we weren'= ;t really evil, we were more intellectual, more about art."

[= Mary Woronov, in an interview with NPR's Terry Gross on "Fresh Air= ", talking about New York City, Warhol's Factory and shows in Los = Angeles while touring with the Velvet Underground:=C2=A0http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId= =3D241437872]

Note: = I am not suggesting that anyone involved with Unix ever took amphetamines, = nor, despite the usual crack about LSD and BSD, that anyone on the west coa= st was taking acid, though Markov's "What the Dormouse Said" = would indicate that many of you WERE tripping.

It seems = like Unix is largely a child of the coasts. Notable work in Utah, Colorado = and Chicago aside, it seems the bulk of early Unix work happened in either = the greater New York metro area in northern New Jersey or the greater Bay a= rea around San Francisco. Notable work was also done in Massachusetts, but = again, that's a coastal state and I think it's fair to say that mos= t of that was inside the route 128 corridor. Of course work was done intern= ationally, but I'm particularly curious about differences in US culture= here, and how they influenced things.

The q= uestion is, to what extent did differences in coastal cultures influence th= ings like design aesthetics? I think it's is accurate to characterize e= arly BTL Unix by it's minimalism, and others have echoed this (cf. Rich= ard Gabriel in the "Worse is Better" papers). But similarly, BSD = has always felt like a larger system -- didn't Lions go as far as to qu= ip about the succinctness of 6th Edition being "fixed" by 4BSD?

Anyway, I believe it is fair to say that early Unix= has a rather distinct feel from later BSD-derived systems and the two did = evolve in different geographic=C2=A0locations. Furthermore, the world was n= ot as connected then as it is now.

So to what exte= nt, if any, was this a function of the larger cultural forces at play near = where that work was taking place?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

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