From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8057 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2022 08:43:04 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Nov 2022 08:43:04 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B061D41DD6; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:42:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f50.google.com (mail-lf1-f50.google.com [209.85.167.50]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66AD241DD3 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:42:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f50.google.com with SMTP id j16so24578390lfe.12 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 00:42:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Sxxp9FbafGFeBtmQUbzwBDFyBjHmseCfYC0xwxzVm3M=; b=l9seUI96TAXdoKOxXOqInNGoIsNS1Du3iVoSKV25pHUjjyMrY2pm/Bb/FiQtUH/ATZ ODdnD7iIWQtiUIzjxn8MYwDHU+Gob3OmtnMEk4qCazcAuDoUQJgsc+Ir9dFbxs0YcVPS x4TblffnONPUy5Am/4AL+VmfOe/IyAql0o2AbYoAGNZVJ5sbmJL0+GUAxww6AH/eMu3b 15YvGCBTqC/4ZBgBz9vAcdU2TSSt0wCZEZSPeznUFBZbdQIVWHpQVpWAo2COIdLlF1Kq 19DaoWbkkcC1ewg8HVu5HG2UoOgLRYG6fDvyoRAfhwYna7BhP2GVEaVClsK2y/6rG9S/ GrGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Sxxp9FbafGFeBtmQUbzwBDFyBjHmseCfYC0xwxzVm3M=; b=1BPpJVR3PbZ4TvNv4tL2dHop+i/bxfJVNtQNANe63xXxi0eCGyWBDM3OHnEX9CExyC wOL8C5y1KR8MF32FnYZdq+X5vOMFFVVxH0cyduqQW8+Pio7T3e0hr4F7IDhzkauo+hV+ FVxNjVPPXFnMXLBFAG1iLKGZ+ETohLsej7OU2KmI1Bh8TiVVkTfyb2K00BKWyAm69iKi +zeLYOZ7F3RtN7v3jNpu0BSug4zO2RL+/OwHjgewpUIT3A6wAVFHGUxZTvr3fX90Jy/V SaUr7z2yQGHJFdzbfadXbybb57ozRIqP7AdAd99HVNpEZhQAp7wyRdZecCr2A314ThFZ lVYw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf2EMZN9TWm5Wsf4ydjq6KnYRuURWbz5uXeSlqXm871AecBG6TM3 kDQq6W8FN9mYXlom1PJllYuf0jHovVsTkyhLAaijLvabQ5w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6Ft7jmGL3HIW487AoaBwX5aDDk+NMGBL5Snm6RqdMpvJh6+bz6bL4v6L7eNzpGHUL4X5gO5mWhvNnxsTvx+JU= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6918:0:b0:4ac:c698:b20b with SMTP id e24-20020a196918000000b004acc698b20bmr21267634lfc.56.1667983293213; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 00:41:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <992562BA-E21F-4542-A50B-6CFE8F7ACE86@planet.nl> <20221011134842.GA11780@mcvoy.com> <20221011195447.GI11780@mcvoy.com> <8583490b-c7cc-4633-b506-2f16335fd3e2@home.arpa> <20221011201025.GJ11780@mcvoy.com> <513e8a46-bd31-420a-bfdf-b59451f89c8d@home.arpa> <0db171e4-7efe-8c00-bb30-a6f914cf9911@technologists.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 03:41:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: Marc Donner Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aef23d05ed059f2a" Message-ID-Hash: 2O2RMYQMRWD54QOVVX6XFHEDRUMDX4XN X-Message-ID-Hash: 2O2RMYQMRWD54QOVVX6XFHEDRUMDX4XN X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: LOC [was Re: Re: Re.: Princeton's "Unix: An Oral History": who was in the team in "The Attic"? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000aef23d05ed059f2a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 8, 2022, 1:57 PM Marc Donner wrote: > My buds in the SRE community confirm that Twitter laid off the entire SRE > team, since of course they didn't write enough code. Good luck with > keeping the system up. > It's ok. I'm sure users can just fax problem reports to Elon. To tie this back to TUHS a little bit...when did being a "sysadmin" become a thing unto itself? And is it just me, or has that largely been superceded by SRE (which I think of as what one used to, perhaps, call a "system programmer") and DevOps, which feels like a more traditional Unix-y kind of thing? - Dan C. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > nygeek.net > mindthegapdialogs.com/home > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:52 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 2:34 PM Charles H Sauer (he/him) < >> sauer@technologists.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/11/2022 3:14 PM, Michael Kj=C3=B6rling wrote: >>> > On 11 Oct 2022 13:10 -0700, from lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy): >>> >>> Isn't it relatively well established, though, that IBM culture at >>> >>> least for a very long time put heavy emphasis on counting lines of >>> >>> source code, and that more SLOC was considered to be better? >>> >> >>> >> That's just stupid. >>> > >>> > You're getting no argument from me there. >>> > >>> >>> It was likely true that some parts of IBM put heavy emphasis on LOC, bu= t >>> as Marc points out, that wasn't true in Research. I don't remember heav= y >>> LOC emphasis in AIX groups, and I suspect even in Boca (OS/2) there was >>> not "heavy" emphasis. >>> >> >> Speaking of "just stupid" >> >> Word on the street is that Elon Musk stack ranked the engineers by lines >> of code >> over the last year (source: https://ma.nu/blog/bye-twitter) and layed >> off the bottom >> performers in terms of LoC... >> >> Not 100% sure this is legit, since some tweets about it have been delete= d. >> >> Warners >> > --000000000000aef23d05ed059f2a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Nov 8, 2022, 1:57 PM Marc Donner <marc.donner@gmail.com> wrote:
My buds in the SRE co= mmunity confirm that Twitter laid off the entire SRE team, since of course = they didn't write enough code.=C2=A0 Good luck with keeping=C2=A0the sy= stem up.

It's ok. I'm sure users can just fax problem report= s to Elon.

To tie this b= ack to TUHS a little bit...when did being a "sysadmin" become a t= hing unto itself? And is it just me, or has that largely been superceded by= SRE (which I think of as what one used to, perhaps, call a "system pr= ogrammer") and DevOps, which feels like a more traditional Unix-y kind= of thing?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

=
<= br>
On Mon,= Nov 7, 2022 at 12:52 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 2:34 PM Charles H Sauer (he/him) &l= t;sauer@technologists.com> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 3:14 PM, Michael Kj=C3=B6rling = wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2022 13:10 -0700, from lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy):
>>> Isn't it relatively well established, though, that IBM cul= ture at
>>> least for a very long time put heavy emphasis on counting line= s of
>>> source code, and that more SLOC was considered to be better? >>
>> That's just stupid.
>
> You're getting no argument from me there.
>

It was likely true that some parts of IBM put heavy emphasis on LOC, but as Marc points out, that wasn't true in Research. I don't remember = heavy
LOC emphasis in AIX groups, and I suspect even in Boca (OS/2) there was not "heavy" emphasis.

Speakin= g of "just stupid"

Word on the street is= that Elon Musk stack ranked the engineers by lines of code
over = the last year (source:=C2=A0https://ma.nu/blog/bye-twitter) and la= yed off the bottom
performers in terms of LoC...

Not 100% sure this is legit, since some tweets about it have been = deleted.

Warners=C2=A0
--000000000000aef23d05ed059f2a--