From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4328 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2020 21:16:06 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Jul 2020 21:16:06 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 274149C72C; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 07:16:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06C39C6B2; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 07:15:14 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="HrewQVD3"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A1B8D94588; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 07:15:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f182.google.com (mail-qk1-f182.google.com [209.85.222.182]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 014DA93D46 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 07:15:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f182.google.com with SMTP id z63so33130203qkb.8 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2020 14:15:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=E57YXNA3NCg4WfXYCpbZHMM/pEvXP4lAm5tQ+gRuWF0=; b=HrewQVD3tevhEBImzCAmO2vnzWXs4/oTSwDXQNbIPNY+WADmxB1sEBqxF6dC7wIHn8 67U+TZEma0Kxdz4jTCB69pkk2b4l8iLEMfc+ldm2trCoAc17KfrLNlCs2QU2VxLwKd60 oVwFrhLTr3qD7Po268APIZ5WkrlJtXhVJgPqIp5KlpeXpEclnf0QVtLXdDMPhaMIH7LD qxqGMrLQx8avnzRLlVQcrIRHY3pvWnn7/LmT0nKjyh+Z513/F0bGDaXTr/4KqRq8qtod lWE4lC70TaQVb2cCr7pe/HQS9Ve0sGiJ2i75ENKAuHztSvebauo2BGyLhp9jH0TUivDY nZZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=E57YXNA3NCg4WfXYCpbZHMM/pEvXP4lAm5tQ+gRuWF0=; b=nAaTH/ScVC4OM9bdz9BOr4kxjjrxko1s1vz1+00SlBxHOjqCTsILVV4qOp7TzpxAwa lro3ocDs4M7THpzaDHOTyXPWFfUaDQvoAwUOey+ogGlDhlIYISm3oOJVlbyOekJ2mPYF DcqryfEfUdKal/nhSHCIPYaW3CEOyGmXNCGkJcjxG4q5g7yyeyLTrJ2hhHS2TB1rof3s rqXDpmg26esuehHz++oEqkle4CBGK3A1sysriPSoAz0l6T21VrxsTCzzf/fDinIvKWOH jsIsUzhrSotyUxrsTSinF6M7fbWerKmEdHZ1sIhw24F5QjW+d5J/S+lFWhFwdc//pY1J qZZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53311HhVaFUdtPxgj0/MAIs54PekX6fzdIMJFYa9Dm9AZ0IBwmSU vUQqD3ePwldxoY40b8rrdJemvieTawdIyNMIjcc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGJeQJkdDQLGujQQj5psXn3RptPgIYhG1Ke4CzCIwr85IcYTqfGWo7bVJDtVvtwjdxY2h3nwjJaSD3W7HKG0E= X-Received: by 2002:a37:5b46:: with SMTP id p67mr43145223qkb.346.1593983711116; Sun, 05 Jul 2020 14:15:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4FC7FA55-5035-41A2-B52F-AE26DC8BED2C@planet.nl> <20200623140124.GR22291@mcvoy.com> <20200624193647.GB14302@mcvoy.com> <20200705144332.GR29318@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 17:14:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e100f805a9b840bf" Subject: Re: [TUHS] VFS prior to 1984 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000e100f805a9b840bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:06 PM Clem Cole wrote: > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:42 PM John Cowan wrote: > >> I always used the design principle "Write locally, read over NFS". >> > This was the basic idea of AFS. Originally, the CMU folks did whole file > caching, but by AFS 4.0 time, they had a Locus token manager (think DLM) > that scaled really well so partial caching was allowed. It actually made a > small disk system possible. What tended to happen, on your first boot, of > course, you had to fill /bin and lot of heavily used directories. But > what happened is that your system quickly had only the files you really > needed on the local disk. - the ones you were writing, and the few you > used over and over. > > FWIW: I know a couple of people that still run it. I ran it until a few > years ago when I switched NAS units just for cost reasons. > There was a neat paper out of CERN a few years ago about how they're turning down their AFS (now OpenAFS) cells. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/898/6/062040/pdf It seems that the idea of a big, shared, distributed file namespace is sadly disappearing. I feel like most of the web-based replacements are not as seamlessly integrated with my preferred toolset as what they're replacing, but I've also become more and more acutely aware that I am not the target audience for those things. Certainly, real-time collaboration via e.g. Google Drive is pretty amazing and very dynamic, particularly when paired with e.g. real-time video chat, but it also forces one into a particular model of interaction that I've spent most of the last three decades consciously avoiding but now find no escape from. - Dan C. --000000000000e100f805a9b840bf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:06 PM Clem Cole = <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:42 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
I always used th= e design principle "Write locally, read over NFS".=C2=A0=C2=A0
This was the basic idea of AFS.=C2=A0 Originally, = the CMU folks did whole file caching, but by AFS 4.0 time, they had a Locus= token manager (think DLM) that scaled really well so partial caching was a= llowed.=C2=A0 It actually made a small disk system possible.=C2=A0 What ten= ded to happen, on your first boot, of course, you had to fill /bin and lot = of heavily used directories.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But what happened is that your sys= tem quickly had only the files you really needed=C2=A0on the=C2= =A0local disk. - the ones you were writing, and the few you used over and o= ver.

FWIW: I know a couple o= f people that still run it.=C2=A0 I ran it until a few years ago when I swi= tched NAS units just for cost reasons.

There was a neat paper out of CERN a few years ago abo= ut how they're turning down their AFS (now OpenAFS) cells.=C2=A0= https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/898/6/062040/pdf

It seems that the idea of a big, shared, distribute= d file namespace is sadly disappearing. I feel like most of the web-based r= eplacements are not as seamlessly integrated with my preferred toolset as w= hat they're replacing, but I've also become more and more acutely a= ware that I am not the target audience for those things.

Certainly, real-time collaboration via e.g. Google Drive is pretty a= mazing and very dynamic, particularly when paired with e.g. real-time video= chat, but it also forces one into a particular model of interaction that I= 've spent most of the last three decades consciously avoiding but now f= ind no escape from.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - = Dan C.
=C2=A0
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