From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4683 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2023 20:23:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jun 2023 20:23:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF9240BF9; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 06:23:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46C6940BF5 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 06:22:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b1a4250b07so58609911fa.3 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1686601377; x=1689193377; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=s2ueowNUfUr6ihp46pHOoladUV3h9neoRVbXXwQv+s8=; b=m78FRQuxcyqS+6/uYEjgzsszpIsE5E18F32nUu7JH5OCUtC+yZNlyWjNyKiEDA263r XRgG61D0Lj4+qXnmF08lCDgtyiOH79dQETLxlORPV3pcxIlQhetZzs2YgqgjFrOCpa9B ySdF7FxcWkef6Ja3ngIIDUkdgiwXOycaylNCWSJrAXvqffPwr5HMTSOK/lkTwnncMB2t LPkZeTADOf7Ra2VEoQgEhxh8Q28xg7rmD/x46NuP24PVKTViLaMrPWN1aD/8gUQDqxdk tgR9DfEq32BiH8m6D7OAtdQMXpRIdWbd0/2tQIqnp/dDvsocdTmP8MDkgIiGGseNby0c TzVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1686601377; x=1689193377; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s2ueowNUfUr6ihp46pHOoladUV3h9neoRVbXXwQv+s8=; b=Q30FxEW5/HWhdoUff/Ju26ScAq7b185uYWSDx7EU7Z9oYjheNVPhzQT7rL3TFs0sQW LmaH3/bfSjjVOi6xAHaYDjjGSowH/6Zo4GIQ7j4YPPlH/cbEwc5YrtC5qg4IonrucLdZ wKzD+7YpUTCOGwReme1hnfQO0fLPVcmJwT/oBlJ5tDmFmwau4r8rSwpxD7YErcMLw+Wk TC+wGXyOqGIkjKY79XOsdkdxyjwuXSNZNpeX62f7x6N2+NsDynp+7TEp7n6cDQ0pUagl QNGAYllrZkJ24sbkBjwjvB7U2RgcLUWCL6Qq8HGpOw5LiyUseD1ZqDtaplLKOXeK7TT6 r7BQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxIemmCkAuwmLtVVkMqnUSxQRceFXgEQmOmNkDi7VerxKJRXhPt 3U7BLRk0f1JZq//rvok1R5dpUa+xVXCMe5p4e9Xt3TV1lzY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5XiTAjsEVJ/fqCxVl9Kgj6XTjriTMmQGtQwYN2yZxESKwjcaViPtjp22RSjdL6jgID8yo2IhecIYhnOm++Ju8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8645:0:b0:2a8:adc4:a928 with SMTP id i5-20020a2e8645000000b002a8adc4a928mr3571209ljj.18.1686601376840; Mon, 12 Jun 2023 13:22:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8DE09E23-5348-496B-B1CF-EDE9C47983B2@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <8DE09E23-5348-496B-B1CF-EDE9C47983B2@mac.com> From: Dan Cross Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:22:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: Chris Pinnock Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 3X5J5N6KVYZ7S56DE4RN77XLKVXORVUX X-Message-ID-Hash: 3X5J5N6KVYZ7S56DE4RN77XLKVXORVUX X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: crt0 -- what's in that name? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFPM Chris Pinnock via TUHS wrote: > I had thought that crt stood for =E2=80=9Ccompiler runtime=E2=80=9D. You= =E2=80=99ll find files on a NetBSD (and other BSDs) in /usr/lib/csu called = crt0, crtbegin, crtend (etc) which are included in the compiled binaries at= build time and are used to include machine dependent things need to initia= lise programs. Hmm. The comment at the top of `crt0.s` from 2nd Edition says, "C runtime startoff", which seems pretty clear. Whether that has changed over time is, of course, another matter (like how GCC changed to "GNU Compiler Collection"). > (The acronym could be wrong of course - bss is the notorious one, where e= ven the man page for a.out has this has a bug: "Nobody seems to agree on wh= at bss stands for.=E2=80=9D) Huh. That seems to have come into the man page sometime after 4.3BSD-Taho; it's in Reno and Net/2, but not before (nor in other systems, that I can see). I thought it was pretty well known that it stands for, "Block Started (by) Symbol"? - Dan C. > > On 12 Jun 2023, at 20:45, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > > > > Probably derivative of /etc/brt1 and /etc/brt2. If there's a rt<= digit> convention before that I can't say. If they're going for UNIX-y nome= nclature though bootloaders were mboot, tboot, uboot, etc. As an aside, Se= ga used the nomenclature "icd_blkX" where X is a digit to number 128-byte b= locks of their initial loader, icd I presume standing for something like in= itial code. I feel like I've seen "icd" used elsewhere, but couldn't say wh= ere. In any case, I'm sure a lot could be devoted to running down the histo= ry of names like crt0, mch, mdec, icd, uboot, and so on. Unfortunately thos= e sorts of trivia haven't bubbled up in my manual studies. > > > > - Matt G. > > ------- Original Message ------- > > On Monday, June 12th, 2023 at 11:53 AM, Clem Cole wrote= : > > > >> This makes sense since there was B runtime to start, and Dennis was me= ssing with things. No idea but I wonder if that was the impetus for the ren= ame from B to newB to C - when he introduced a new runtime? > >> =E1=90=A7 > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:30=E2=80=AFPM Dan Cross w= rote: > >> On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:22=E2=80=AFPM ron minnich wrote: > >> > This came up lately in the riscv firmware universe. Someone named ea= rly boot bt0, I mentioned crt0, and ... when did that name first appear? I = first saw it in v6 but I'm sure it was long before. > >> > >> The Unix tree shows it in 2nd Edition: > >> https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=3DV2/lib/crt0.s > >> That would suggest it was more or less contemporaneous with C itself. > >> > >> - Dan C. > > >