From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8337 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2023 16:41:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Feb 2023 16:41:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A794126B; Sat, 4 Feb 2023 02:41:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f51.google.com (mail-lf1-f51.google.com [209.85.167.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C92B24126A for ; Sat, 4 Feb 2023 02:41:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f51.google.com with SMTP id bi36so8572098lfb.8 for ; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 08:41:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8JUWk9WLwFLeiBPcFAMJ37oiKByby4tXs8mwPqrQHL8=; b=XSEpYibA1Q9Hd0KHZY5WSqigbTtksdAiheqZOI2yu5jmJUAotxQC7Yy//742oq88mt izblYhECi0/xG9qmjCtfJVDxcQ8rlCMUdKomDD9xM3YUapGsKbwz85DH+HjRp2j9u7Jt NjGHnLP/2Nz473sccQkju5JG6ylk4ina1YsHcwQQPGdgiaoCVFLPEuzUt+iTtZr+DXyf jGq48Ym4sfX7e5WFXh7T+tydYiImU9e5JKGRxDORVkDk78rtMnHRBvfkJkOmYZk+OoDB ysGwnhqnaf89loZiQXTUJawuVvxlvOju6TOyZI1TLvLVXIKjmU+lpW28/RqzKppCjFQk hOAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=8JUWk9WLwFLeiBPcFAMJ37oiKByby4tXs8mwPqrQHL8=; b=UkXru9hNxs7W83z/BGqt6xnm2zDXKQGLEDaYVHKwSibe98aiSGLsn1AvdC311tuyt3 qaI0n4W95FgGW+tDjN2fZ1v9QCR/M0uWshWay6RyccNu4QM+lZsEAOTmHDhk+iAzueCT xy0nOLf1U4/J9trx8s2hx7hl2b0+zNeol2noYO7puVlQoySVqznXYVQH0O8qfj6R+BTj qERaHPW240I7RsuJYZQTtf4LVSpB+H35xnddM8eZ2LtMAXRxzsrmJlmN8f77ygkZLwLu YPgCyi2fXkiJuxlwyWYP5CmfbyxXq61H9ztRxkWB3i4YzUIkZycvQNmeDEhgeg+K573+ uY1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKW71dCkRM4NU1nvR2BIeZsxIHJeJ7vAJWVkHqtzSHWX33CIiQ1k whh7gIx9HS2AGNJRzMPapueLMxsozt/BUg+w3v8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set81zwMJBL9DUrWHQaqp7wEqaCtjhLKGHRNoiN3OG1WHP4Wf/fx9/w3SGD29FF11Yv8k1ZNY4WIXw/9+5CQswCM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:68b:b0:499:fa38:3da4 with SMTP id t11-20020a056512068b00b00499fa383da4mr1906616lfe.12.1675442414938; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 08:40:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230202190232.C79D118C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <73d0b98b-ae3f-428d-1b2e-feada7fc98a1@case.edu> <20230203141540.GS30555@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230203141540.GS30555@mcvoy.com> From: Dan Cross Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 11:39:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: 7W3NPOJYMHBEYV5CPPVN5TARK2FTBNLY X-Message-ID-Hash: 7W3NPOJYMHBEYV5CPPVN5TARK2FTBNLY X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Proper use of TUHS (was Re: Typesetter C compiler) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:16 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 09:11:35AM -0500, Chet Ramey wrote: > > On 2/2/23 8:44 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > >>So, the question becomes: what _is_ that forum, if such a thing exists > > >>at all? > > > > > >A new list? Social media is for the birds; Usenet is dead, film at 11. > > > > A new list, if it serves its purpose of providing interesting content, will > > eventually undergo the same thing. It's always going end up being some > > variant of Yogi Berra's famous "nobody goes there anymore, it's too > > crowded." > > In my opinion, Warren has been threading the needle nicely. He lets stuff > go into the weeds a bit but has a pretty good sense of when it is annoying > people that we all want to keep around. He's very understated about it > all but he keeps this list pretty sane. > > If you haven't joined COFF, maybe consider it, if that got big enough > then the other stuff could be done over there. Some folks have given good suggestions, which I appreciate, but perhaps it would help to explain exactly what I'm looking for. I think that new system designs remain important, but without a historical perspective, they run the risk of repeating old mistakes, ignoring prior art, etc. Something I appreciate about TUHS is how one has access to so many of the key players in Unix as well as other systems: the perspective those people bring to the discussion is illuminating. But TUHS is clearly meant to be a Unix history list, not a "list about new systems where we can ask about history because that helps us build those new systems". In that sense, I'm not looking for COFF or a retro or classic computer list, either, but for something explicitly modern yet informed by history. I don't believe such a thing actually exists. - Dan C.