From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a39437c9 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 20:28:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2E5559C0BB; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 06:28:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5D59C092; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 06:27:31 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="mDAgsm5a"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B54F19C092; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 06:27:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f180.google.com (mail-qt1-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 157F89B5BB for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 06:27:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f180.google.com with SMTP id g50so25961078qtb.4 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gQftP25F0OLcLfbvzGKFW12NH7nPQZuzxTN0OLj2+c4=; b=mDAgsm5aEL069uFIjRKA/KnBEfv0LVDXkut8oyGMhRuV3jRAlB5QGubJ7hYRFA9ZCf rcmSFWDSWbGWdFAzK6O+VApi1NRhdhbT+0/e+m7Ax0bmMn7A6t3/yxvghIIeAZO4mxip FPaJdfzt4YEu9P9HXISN5mtoAQUH92gLD5ojYewUulSChNW/+SQPWzwRfx5pA6lo7PoS keLK86jkSgQY6NoCbUtKUqf9+ls1nI6BN80azXw1L1+AkJeyrwewxIc7CgCGAMmMS5JF ZuXpHrY5BMPPsG0yxmxpDMPW01MErh0bujZ/7VGfVKGJ2GFUDqjiytUT7KpQWN1cZ3Rx bd/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gQftP25F0OLcLfbvzGKFW12NH7nPQZuzxTN0OLj2+c4=; b=gO9mXa90C4iLewXtKTYV1swhxMjUeOF+JP9SL9uIxZ1amMBxfDijXOGsmBIGXNGAgo +QbDnrHnLy5lHyDdKxtKThQPGt24A0S+HLwB2EqhbTpwiubfpxO22UU5/IKpmUQ2Lgpv uMEWIrhvZqLmGjLwDXyueavcZhx+gi51AMB8ksJ3aWkyotkOQ7Q1QttIMHOH1xVGNDeB mbCt168wNp54rg6oGqmYiRGMWHH1+e6tXFkiPd8AAjyEhKFDlJqZPOkCOBOeqcm7g8OZ +UUJOhHBpt4+8pICHw/uE7XW63Ya7iQUZx2+d2Ov2x0TBp8zWnp7hoiui2VuX0h2vfgh 6YEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVn6Bxq1Kv+LumuKbu3L1/61A9A24y3Vt1AZQ5q8EczUv/ag65U vIbwI3VnEfCjuz8FE9UK63MNiMSn3pY/2hgdMA0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwI9hvsWW6OV4E5PkhUGXx9q+uDpEAJpGAyqFvA0XwHKaVGwFC/GeY/svkfqGZnfE0VtMjY/uvxuYIflZJcSds= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4791:: with SMTP id k17mr14419941qtq.136.1572899245134; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 12:27:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <116B676F-5917-481A-9634-0E6C5F702B9B@mcjones.org> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 15:27:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c6188305968b24eb" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000c6188305968b24eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah wrote: > I am surprised no one mentioned *The Shockwave Rider *by John Brunner, > published in 1975. Excerpt: > > Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had > resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the > continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a > denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt > itself from one nexus to another every time his credit-code was punched > into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and sometim= es > weeks. > > In the 1983 movie "Wargames", at the very end as the staff at NORAD desperately try and disable the rogue artificial intelligence hell-bent on starting World War III, at one point they make a suggestion to send a "tapeworm" into the system", but it's judged too risky. They ultimately defeat the computer by getting it to play tic-tac-toe against itself and learn that nuclear war is unwinnable. - Dan C. I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this bit > had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read i= t > along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the > present era! > > On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones wrote: > > Another possible source of inspiration =E2=80=94 including the name =E2= =80=9Cworm=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 were > the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xer= ox > PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982: > > John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp: > The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early Experience with a Distribute= d Computation. > Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980 > http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf > > John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp: > The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early Experience with a Distribute= d Computation. > CACM V25 N3 (March 1982) > http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf > > On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski wrote: > > > On 11/2/19, Warner Losh wrote: > > > the notion of a self propagating thing > was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many plac= es > prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving > vectors of BBS). > > > Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back > to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles. Self-submitting OS/360 JCL > jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with > jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world. > > In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was, > but Robert just got there first. > > > Again, first on the Internet. Back in 1980 I accidentally took down > DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS, > at the time) with a worm. ... > > Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group. > The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident. > So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his > UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later. > > -Paul W. > > > > --000000000000c6188305968b24eb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at = 1:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
= I am surprised no one mentioned The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner,= published in 1975. Excerpt:

Then the answer dawned on him, a= nd he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the continental n= et a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a denunciation group &qu= ot;borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another every= time his credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm = like that, and sometimes weeks.

I= n the 1983 movie "Wargames", at the very end as the staff at NORA= D desperately try and disable the rogue artificial intelligence hell-bent o= n starting World War III, at one point they make a suggestion to send a &qu= ot;tapeworm" into the system", but it's judged too risky. The= y ultimately defeat the computer by getting it to play tic-tac-toe against = itself and learn that nuclear war is unwinnable.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.


I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't rem= ember much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I ha= ve been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would b= e too depressing in the present era!

On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org>= wrote:

Another possible source of inspiration =E2=80=94= including the name =E2=80=9Cworm=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 were the publications = by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979= -1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:

John F. Shoch and = Jon Hupp:
=C2=A0The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early = Experience=C2=A0with a Distributed Computation.
Xerox SSL-80-3 an= d IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980

J= ohn F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
=C2=A0The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs= =E2=80=94 Early Experience=C2=A0with a Distributed Computation.
= CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)
On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:

On 1= 1/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

the notion of a self propagating thin= g
was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many p= laces
prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower= moving
vectors of BBS).

Novel to the Internet communit= y, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
to the 1960s in IBM mainfram= e circles.=C2=A0 Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
<= span style=3D"font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;fo= nt-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:= start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0= px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">jobs, which eventually c= aused a crash by filling the queue files with
jobs, were well-known = in the raised-floor world.

In hindsight people lik= e to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
but Robert just got t= here first.

Again, first on the Internet.=C2=A0 Back in 19= 80 I accidentally took down
DEC's internal engineering network (= about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
at the time) with a worm. =C2=A0..= .

Robert Morris worked as an intern one summ= er in DEC's compiler group.
The Fortran project leader told Mo= rris about my 1980 worm incident.
So he certainly had heard of the c= oncept before he fashioned his
UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years = later.

-Paul W.