From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3246abd1 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:49:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C28C4A2464; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:49:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48D6A22FF; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:49:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E28C9A22A1; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:16:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f177.google.com (mail-qt1-f177.google.com [209.85.160.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F10CA22A0 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:16:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f177.google.com with SMTP id z20-v6so6647792qti.9 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 09:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4ePOA86KBASpPbPCGMHyiVyfnUiT3hckKSbW39sNC6g=; b=nALA7EMDEs0V9krW7LFJ17JAXKzy+b28G6XbEWzLMdaf1bPOlW7BUr+Ngi2eAhpQ8X Iy2qmRBhwHTCTrcI/4gysCBqLHujLfa9xmMJPUrZBld6AqbHt2yla0fzh+rX75vOQhd2 nYXdHILn1SVQqLSUHp4SDrnp38Jy0Ga4eyeyQm7uugpqnYBeQG2/+rn1tglnA94PWbzF LVjV0UQq0KDbGwlyRISIxMND6KZe+wJ4TMWVKtVJsvMd+mTYSWmju0TL3TZbFD2m6ZJe a1wKG7uIHZ3eZrO8aItSqmLaXdFncJxxwybP+r2wQSwnZXGNFDQpeGkAUzpmxO6nQuVM lGfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4ePOA86KBASpPbPCGMHyiVyfnUiT3hckKSbW39sNC6g=; b=Sp7tdw8NJp8yxFOZhIuV1AsDx+Ko+swoWsrLI4/fdF3gMX2DnRLIfIMNaHRFbiWYub /pmrpgxdGCrWL0HM54rbZI55WOFQlYEllLwSZ2zjxFvYWV5q/qx/KCbPlzptRwneHkR+ X3+9gU8LVAQJFzsrPuFqmk7HNqdqNGMzBTU1dy/EC9UwG/WpZejHTr0D8zfvUtu4y2CC 6YMjTMAQXLykbd6U3Zw/tA8apbtU9z9p87iqt1SfPU6hLajXDb25+IfEMmhgl6MNAID5 0t6BgEhuly6ci1Zj2UMdgiYqBfrVJg2wfM4dKO/TUPv5D+bHgRQwUD3Ob8PerWLBFpy6 gm2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJS/35VVfz9noVM1HtwvjWCpoW6Q4DYUU4l9168JdmdjMUwKOp8 QZ/Ig0W9WBLNPhtkjAl/56AtYtT8BTwRQ3NFheikbBhi X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eCGEXImKBIbtqJzvp2lY8PpWVOTCv6ff97OT7YfkbdWbMtnOlFrOZmCMPQhqNnTMlvEQa7MfRImZGetsZUXpg= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3065:: with SMTP id g34mr1116403qte.136.1541610968223; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 09:16:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201811070905.wA795wxP017303@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <201811070905.wA795wxP017303@freefriends.org> From: Dan Cross Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 12:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: Aharon Robbins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002495ac057a1646c7" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Directory services in early Unix networks? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000002495ac057a1646c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 4:05 AM wrote: > Dan Cross wrote: > > What was the introduction of DNS into the mix like? I can imagine that > that > > changed all sorts of assumptions about failure modes and the like. > > I'm not sure what you're asking. Sorry, this was indeed vague. Ron alluded to what I was asking about; namely, what were the circumstances that gave rise to the creation of DNS in the first place? I imagine an unwieldy HOSTS.TXT file being FTP'd daily combined with a linear scan (or an expensive step to create a DBM file or something) had a lot to do with it. When DNS came along, it became > a matter of editing /etc/nsswitch.conf to include dns as one of the > options along with files and yp/nis. I think the average user didn't > see any big difference since all the apps (ftp, telnet) just went > through gethostbyname(). > This doesn't mesh with my memory. I recall building BIND from source and having to rebuild network programs (e.g. on 4.3 on the RT or VAXen) to pick up the new version of libresolv.a, and hacking the resolver library into libc.so on Suns. I remember using resolv.conf fairly early on, but my memory is that nsswitch.conf came later (Solaris 2.x era?). Ultrix did have a configuration file for where to do host lookups, but I think the set of sources was fixed: files, NIS or DNS. This would have been in the Ultrix 4.4 or 4.5 era on MIPS. I remember seeing some description of a configuration file accompanied by an editorialized comment saying something like, "this is an idea that's time has come: Ultrix has had it for several years." The dig on uglix was, well, kind of funny (I had a DECstation at home at the time). DNS configuration files were a trip, especially for someone used to the > very simple Unix configuration files like /etc/passwd and /etc/hosts. > Circa 1985/1986 I was responsible for bringing up DNS at the Emory U > campus. Once in place, things pretty much just worked. Or at least, > from this distant vantage point, that's what I seem to remember. > Ha! Yeah, tell me about it. We used to format our SOA records so that the '(' was on a line by itself, indented to 'SOA'. At some point, a minor point revision to BIND changed the parsing behavior so that this was a syntax error; there was no warning that this would be the case. I complained on a BIND mailing list and was told, "this is in the RFC." It wasn't clear to me where, in the documentation, it was specified that the file format understood by BIND was the RFC-standard format. - Dan C. --0000000000002495ac057a1646c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Nov 7,= 2018 at 4:05 AM <arnold@skeeve.com= > wrote:
Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> w= rote:
> What was the introduction of DNS into the mix like? I can imagine that= that
> changed all sorts of assumptions about failure modes and the like.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

So= rry, this was indeed vague.

Ron alluded to what I = was asking about; namely, what were the circumstances that gave rise to the= creation of DNS in the first place? I imagine an unwieldy HOSTS.TXT file b= eing FTP'd daily combined with a linear scan (or an expensive step to c= reate a DBM file or something) had a lot to do with it.

When DNS came along, it became
a matter of editing /etc/nsswitch.conf to include dns as one of the
options along with files and yp/nis.=C2=A0 I think the average user didn= 9;t
see any big difference since all the apps (ftp, telnet) just went
through gethostbyname().

This doesn'= ;t mesh with my memory. I recall building BIND from source and having to re= build network programs (e.g. on 4.3 on the RT or VAXen) to pick up the new = version of libresolv.a, and hacking the resolver library into libc.so on Su= ns. I remember using resolv.conf fairly early on, but my memory is that nss= witch.conf came later (Solaris 2.x era?). Ultrix did have a configuration f= ile for where to do host lookups, but I think the set of sources was fixed:= files, NIS or DNS. This would have been in the Ultrix 4.4 or 4.5 era on MI= PS. I remember seeing some description of a configuration file accompanied = by an editorialized comment saying something like, "this is an idea th= at's time has come: Ultrix has had it for several years." The dig = on uglix was, well, kind of funny (I had a DECstation at home at the time).=

DNS configuration files were a trip, especially for someone used to the
very simple Unix configuration files like /etc/passwd and /etc/hosts.
Circa 1985/1986 I was responsible for bringing up DNS at the Emory U
campus.=C2=A0 Once in place, things pretty much just worked. Or at least, from this distant vantage point, that's what I seem to remember.

Ha! Yeah, tell me about it. We used to format= our SOA records so that the '(' was on a line by itself, indented = to 'SOA'. At some point, a minor point revision to BIND changed the= parsing behavior so that this was a syntax error; there was no warning tha= t this would be the case. I complained on a BIND mailing list and was told,= "this is in the RFC." It wasn't clear to me where, in the do= cumentation, it was specified that the file format understood by BIND was t= he RFC-standard format.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 - Dan C.

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