From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17010 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2022 17:46:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Sep 2022 17:46:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E62A40A23; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 03:46:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f53.google.com (mail-ot1-f53.google.com [209.85.210.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FBA340A06 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 03:46:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f53.google.com with SMTP id j17-20020a9d7f11000000b0065a20212349so6696628otq.12 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=LO2jvPGP+YG7TmOB9ILXLfKsKaaVhjZ2R/DzosRGXv0=; b=K7q2Lmth149vrcCp0WOfBRoifBV873uelGTgit/s08FDE3EpIoZd1ZrP9CAW06GPih pbtdtJa+72XM7Sr1bMb69LG8zon7IcWcz4tE/qWEVDqaAUqVJ8GW+QD8qfSTyonJvgp3 edp29s5VgnhUeq19o47ANEziYwb17EuK3IxImdra2ORAA1NpDIr4BuX3tmeAmowm+isl ZlMfSM6zySYlziwTp6Hj+KXesiR/+RRFJev/ubfdgjeSgV3yeR1aFWCoNhJET+RuNZz1 xiuu2Pz0d/CE43lIyyP65UAlRQvl61SpeuZMvpGQqdlU1vRcbTwdzDgIAnO+XOwdoxto asPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=LO2jvPGP+YG7TmOB9ILXLfKsKaaVhjZ2R/DzosRGXv0=; b=ztn6acoUtQbXLJXW40sqfEocp8C9z5/QI0hxM1MqelO8yL+TE0eFCdxdBRUItMAsBk hRN9r9D8f1BK3SS+gfJWNMNflPkEvdTJ4dxIVBPjc84u/mf5qzBM7uzcwGbM24KSBKyY /8Olx+GMfFEz2n90YeUWt2xvXG3p+SzYP1V6PJFhrR6wyyQBr4DvFfJbM/1GH0jW7Eeo /uWMS3LsetIveDZIIc6qz6C6Mv9kaksYsDUwwUX3jeayf/yJaCYb55kuCP1Q2QyjDBYl f1YFnKpCAroWWHR/VIA8uU2RXs5omZ0v1r2Q53fHy+xkHOUuNxN6DrtCjHMJW3Zb/jcO BvAw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0Mewlu+lnLNHcNjiEUtexEINSCs1CZqd1blouMG7o2y7O6oIOZ WYd5+ihobZLJUDUZ/Gjapy2eGGVzVbKypwIzzocKL9L0nHE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4CzWloPkHdConVldoI2POwT7FEPUAWsvLB7UotK8MEkzNXaoRTIzS9kiwAPt6XdePZgIOmhMIlVZssH0QzZps= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3c4:0:b0:65a:774:4079 with SMTP id f62-20020a9d03c4000000b0065a07744079mr2276640otf.17.1663868698024; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202209212149.28LLnV1J032395@ultimate.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:44:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: Andy Kosela Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: IHHJWNNQOXYGKUR75MY5FYUNKQZJFNRF X-Message-ID-Hash: IHHJWNNQOXYGKUR75MY5FYUNKQZJFNRF X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early BSD license thread List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 3:08 AM Andy Kosela wrote: > On Thursday, September 22, 2022, Dan Cross wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 5:50 PM Phil Budne wrote: >> > Not to excuse the failure of the BSD team to properly attribute source >> > origin by adding only their copyright notice, but didn't AT&T try >> > unfair turnabout by not properly attributing the origins of their >> > TCP/IP code? >> >> One of my favorite copyright notices was for /bin/true in System V. >> An empty file got turned into 7 lines of comments holding copyright >> boilerplate and an `#ident` line with an SCCS version number: >> progress! > > That reminds me of the excellent dissertation of Gerald Holzmann on Code= Inflation[1]. The situation is even worse now and honestly I don't see it= will improve in the future. My take on the code inflation problem is that= today without paid "volunteers" (from IBM, Oracle, Google, etc.) a large c= hunk of our modern software landscape would just collapse. It is not 90s I= nternet anymore where hobbyists did it for fun, because frankly back then i= t was fun... Nowadays... not that much. Indeed. Ted has made this point frequently; Linux for example basically requires corporate sponsors to get new features into the kernel. Sure, some individual might come up with a great idea and implementation that'll make it in, but that's the exception rather than the norm. The flip side is that there's a lot of load-bearing infrastructure that is barely maintained, if at all. This xkcd seems perennially relevant: https://xkcd.com/2347/ I suppose the situation may be summed up as extremes at both ends. In any event, it's not great. - Dan C.