From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21319 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2021 01:13:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jul 2021 01:13:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7D2C69C883; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:13:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D119C864; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:13:05 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="GmWuKhNL"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 93DD79C864; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:10:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f46.google.com (mail-ot1-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6904B9C861 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:10:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f46.google.com with SMTP id h24-20020a9d64180000b029036edcf8f9a6so11918537otl.3 for ; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 18:10:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=60nIAONwS2bEM5ewkNpnMjElj0je2tjmgSUlZ+5bydM=; b=GmWuKhNLDyl4zWj9NXtX1q3zU4kL1Vg/HSStovw8J6H3y00LVCYto4y1HX2HW2Z+Nf oLK+G1iR+Ji9db2wLYj7fmVu01cJV01u3uKFeLH1WpGa76CR2w++r1S6Ok8Ir3oMwR2/ va3TWcajLOAeq7mJgMukJSLQL82doT8uQ827Y5D6lBwnIK8dmF3LQjbVmKDrZdLm9Aoe ZLbMSy0PL0MFO83h6v5aAdoYOZuBN5TmScqb4PJ+ralNI2bTBX4Re0ZTReRxBCEIO2hO Q4QguyipRVCb5u+TCCJxt20NTRdEjINbqIFJh+EMZm3oToiQWhfop+YgGk/1zdDwvEIF RRAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=60nIAONwS2bEM5ewkNpnMjElj0je2tjmgSUlZ+5bydM=; b=jjhTGz3xMRvMl3Byvv51Va85KD9VeteNf4oD5yNi2SD2gWjO9DcyiOK4erCqCPZlY4 WH2pL1kWfUV9tNpHe6o10o61VX2FXX4yF5odjukWsTRhHsqe+cgMbuZ44GfnTQTw/gvw VbjP0LZXRqTS1mCa+yTjnruVUs4ljiinm3YPV2g/jtzIN+YHLHa9XRHCyPn7H9FZ+Gqp krc9Ht2H+48HIHA3Aoi13yq7khytPqhFcp9bJo7duFCRlttO3zvcwB6M1Xlnz3f6NpBl SjJ89jveMQ2Q/gg1Acx+o3kE5AAa8+gU9aGEumG3Cv+UMVuGGlY6t3Y2sYyKtwGmvbL3 pXUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530F8agIw/SxkrN6hBaaY1QHX/AUgp26Obn41o/KFHmuyF97akkd NMRkzQe4/V3Mjn9dcl2NI08VItYCgSYrSi+UBHs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyGjJbbJjJnzEs9Fqp+9Q5GVzMcNrOcf6gVSteO2UIMAL5IaxvWu6XIAjRdPZLfKK51lSvxyrEJYRH1B7CWO1Q= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:600b:: with SMTP id h11mr1595622otj.313.1625274642711; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 18:10:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 21:10:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Richard Salz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bdcaed05c62dbd1c" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First machine to run rogue? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Bakul Shah Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000bdcaed05c62dbd1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah thanks, very cool. Btw, Ken Arnold, Michael Toy, and Glenn Wichman were all on a panel discussing rogue and Ken mentioned that source listing. Some folks might find it interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIaB7iQht= s_c Thanks! - Dan C. On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 9:22 AM Richard Salz wrote: > Ken Arnold posted the original source to > https://sourceforge.net/projects/rogue/ back in 2000. > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 9:12 AM Bakul Shah wrote: > >> Glenn wrote up a brief history where he says it was first distributed >> with 4.2bsd. >> >> https://web.archive.org/web/19980625212119/http://www.wichman.org/rogueh= istory.html >> >> @ Fortune Systems in 1983/83 we had 3-4 college students working for a >> contract company Santa Cruz Operations(?) doing testing for us. He was o= ne >> of them and later we hired him full time. I didn=E2=80=99t interact with= him much >> though and once I quit Fortune I lost track of him. I think initially we >> had only a rogue binary on 4.1 running on VAX780 but I do not recall if = he >> brought it to Fortune. Someone later ported it to the Fortune machine. = I >> used to play Rogue while waiting for kernel compiles to finish. A few ye= ars >> ago I got it on FreeBSD and my muscle memory came back 100%! >> >> On Jul 2, 2021, at 5:16 AM, Dan Cross wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:40 AM wrote: >> >>> Is the rogue source extant? I remember many people spending many >>> hours on rogue on the 4.[12] BSD vax at Georgia Tech. >>> >>> ISTR that rogue only came as a binary, there was no source. >>> >> >> It is; it looks like it was first distributed with 4.3BSD-Tahoe. The >> sources there are listed as "public domain rogue", but I'm not sure abou= t >> the provenance of that code. >> >> - Dan C. >> >> >> Arnold >>> >>> Dan Cross wrote: >>> >>> > Thanks, Clem. I'm curious what other lore is out there: my suspicion = is >>> > that rogue never ran on vanilla v6, but it would be great to validate= . >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:51 PM Clem Cole wrote: >>> > >>> > > I first got it on V7, as I said on our 11/70 for sure but I don=E2= =80=99t >>> remember >>> > > if we had it on the 11/60 before that. >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:07 PM Dan Cross wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> What was the first machine to run rogue? I understand that it was >>> written >>> > >> by Glenn Wichman and Michael Toy at UC Santa Cruz ca. 1980, using >>> the >>> > >> `curses` library (Ken Arnold's original, not Mary Ann's rewrite). >>> I've seen >>> > >> at least one place that indicates it first ran on 6th Edition, but >>> that >>> > >> doesn't sound right to me. The first reference I can find in BSD i= s >>> in 2.79 >>> > >> ("rogue.doc"), which also appears to be the first release to ship >>> curses. >>> > >> >>> > >> Anyone have any info? Thanks! >>> > >> >>> > >> - Dan C. >>> > >> >>> > >> -- >>> > > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual >>> > > >>> >> --000000000000bdcaed05c62dbd1c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah thanks, very cool.=C2=A0 Btw, Ken Arnold, Michael Toy, = and Glenn Wichman were all on a panel discussing rogue and Ken mentioned th= at source listing. Some folks might find it interesting:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/watch?= v=3DIaB7iQhts_c

Thanks!

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 = at 9:22 AM Richard Salz <rich.sal= z@gmail.com> wrote:
Ken Arnold posted the original source to https://sou= rceforge.net/projects/rogue/ back in 2000.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 9:= 12 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
G= lenn wrote up a brief history where he says it was first distributed with 4= .2bsd.

@ Fortune Systems in= 1983/83 we had 3-4 college students working for a contract company Santa C= ruz Operations(?) doing testing for us. He was one of them and later we hir= ed him full time. I didn=E2=80=99t interact with him much though and once I= quit Fortune I lost track of him. I think initially we had only a rogue bi= nary on 4.1 running on VAX780 but I do not recall if he brought it to Fortu= ne. Someone later ported it to the =C2=A0Fortune machine. I used to play Ro= gue while waiting for kernel compiles to finish. A few years ago I got it o= n FreeBSD and my muscle memory came back 100%!

On Jul 2, 2021, at 5:16 AM, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wro= te:

= =EF=BB=BF
On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:40 AM <<= a href=3D"mailto:arnold@skeeve.com" target=3D"_blank">arnold@skeeve.com= > wrote:
Is t= he rogue source extant?=C2=A0 I remember many people spending many
hours on rogue on the 4.[12] BSD vax at Georgia Tech.

ISTR that rogue only came as a binary, there was no source.

It is; it looks like it was first distributed=C2=A0wit= h 4.3BSD-Tahoe. The sources there are listed=C2=A0as "public domain ro= gue", but I'm not sure about the provenance of that code.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

<= div>
Arnold

Dan Cross <crossd@= gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Clem. I'm curious what other lore is out there: my suspici= on is
> that rogue never ran on vanilla v6, but it would be great to validate.=
>
> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:51 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> > I first got it on V7, as I said on our 11/70 for sure but I don= =E2=80=99t remember
> > if we had it on the 11/60 before that.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:07 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What was the first machine to run rogue? I understand that it= was written
> >> by Glenn Wichman and Michael Toy at UC Santa Cruz ca. 1980, u= sing the
> >> `curses` library (Ken Arnold's original, not Mary Ann'= ;s rewrite). I've seen
> >> at least one place that indicates it first ran on 6th Edition= , but that
> >> doesn't sound right to me. The first reference I can find= in BSD is in 2.79
> >> ("rogue.doc"), which also appears to be the first r= elease to ship curses.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any info? Thanks!
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Dan C.
> >>
> >> --
> > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
> >
--000000000000bdcaed05c62dbd1c--