[TUHS] Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[TUHS] Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Vicente Collares via TUHS]

Hello TUHS people!

Someone recently posted a question about your prized UNIX artifacts to 
this list, that discussion [1] seems to be about various memorabilia. 
What about computers made to run UNIX? Do you have or used to any 
interesting historical hardware?

For my part, I have only used UNIX on emulated systems so far but would 
like to purchase some hardware. Given that I have little space it would 
need to be something small. According to you how does one get into that 
specific type of retro computing?

See you around cyberspace,

Vicente
vicente@collares.ca

[1] https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2025-June/032020.html

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Vicente Collares via TUHS]

Hello Henry,

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:45:37 -0400
Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:

> How retro, and how little space?  Is a pizza box form factor Sun
> workstation like, say, a SPARCstation 1 or 2 too new, or too big?
The pizza box factor would be ideal since it would fit on top of a desk. 
Therefore the SPARCstation 1 or 2 seems reasonably sized to me. The 
*biggest* I could accommodate would be something the size of a modern 
full tower.

I do not have a strong preference for the era of the system. I'm more 
interested in its historical signaficance.

Have a great week,

Vicente
vicente@collares.ca

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Vicente Collares via TUHS]

Hello Henry,

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 14:52:54 -0400
Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:

> Something like a SPARCstation 2 or 5 might be ideal since you would be able
> to run a variety of operating systems both historic and modern - SunOS 4,
> Solaris, NetBSD, probably Linux if you really wanted to, NeXTstep, and I'm
> probably forgetting a few more.  The historical significance of a system
> like that is that they were everywhere - Sun sold a ton of them and they
> were used in all sorts of applications, which also makes it a good entry
> level machine since they're fairly easy to come by and not terribly
> expensive.  Parts are usually easy to find and inexpensive if you need
> them.  You would also have options like using a modern SCSI emulator
> instead of a hard disk or connecting to an LCD monitor, but you could also
> do the full original workstation setup without too much trouble.
> 
> -Henry
> 

Do the models you mentioned generally "age" well? Do they usually 
require significant repairs to get them running again?

I've always found Sun to be an interesting company and like your 
suggestion a lot. I like having the option to connect a hard drive 
through a SCSI emulator.

Thanks for answering my questions,

Vicente

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025, Henry Bent wrote:

[ ... ]

> I'm looking forward to the answer from others on this one - what's the 
> most weird/obscure UNIX hardware you ever used?

Many decades ago I evaluated MiniUnix running on a twin-floppy (8") DEC 
box (can't remember which).  I recall that sync(2) had to be patched to 
not keep updating the inode for /dev/tty8 (the console) as otherwise it 
would wear a hole in the floppy...

-- Dave

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Johan Helsingius via TUHS]

On 09/06/2025 19:21, Vicente Collares via TUHS wrote:
> Someone recently posted a question about your prized UNIX artifacts to 
> this list, that discussion [1] seems to be about various memorabilia. 
> What about computers made to run UNIX? Do you have or used to any 
> interesting historical hardware?

Penet.fi was a 3B2 back in the day, but it has gone to the great
recycling scrapyard by now. I still have the basic 386 PC that
was anon.poenet.fi (using BSD UNIX).

The most horrible one I remember was the Zilog Z8000 system that
was the UUCP and USENET (EUnet) backbone for Finland for a while.
It ran a Zilog implementation of System III. Unfortunately they,
just like everybody else, noticed the discrepancy between the
TTY termio interface implementation and documentation, but unlike
everybody else, they fixed the code, not the documentation.

The Zilog TTY driver, in raw mode, would not wait for a certain
number of bytes and a certain time before returning, but would
return after a certain number of bytes *or* a timeout.

My horror story is of running the Helsinki-Amsterdam (penet-mcvax)
backbone connection on UUCP over X.25. If mcvax was slow, the tty
driver would occasionally time out -- and return with 0 bytes,
(that UUCP of course took as "line dropped"), and that transfer of
a news or email batch would have to re-start - while paying for
traffic per data packet. Bills got pretty expensive pretty fast.

	Julf

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Dan Cross]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 1:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> Can I suggest you start with OpenSIMH - https://OpenSimH.org and try running any a simulated system.   It's a lot cheaper and while quite the same has having the the actual hardware, a lot easier to manage and most everything you could do from the old days can be done on you personal computer.   If you want BlinkenLights, get one on of Occar's wonderful PiDP11 kits - https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11  (which run OpenSIMH behind his lights and switches). Again a lot small and will meet you budget constraints.

Another side of that is power consumption. The older machines will
absolutely drink energy; OpenSIMH on a modern SBC is so much more
efficient in that regard.

        - Dan C.

> On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:08 PM Vicente Collares via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Milo,
>>
>> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:38:54 -0400
>> Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > What’s your budget and what’s your level of hardware technical skill? If budget is no concern, there are occasional complete pdp11 or vaxen on eBay. Or, you could get CPU cards and interfaces to piece together a system. If you go that route a Unibone or Qbone is highly recommended for both debugging and filling in hardwar gaps via emulation. Alternatively, there are several FPGA projects to emulate -11s.
>>
>> Buying a complete PDP-11 or VAX is the dream, but it's not what I'm
>> aiming for to start. I was thinking of something like a UNIX
>> workstation. I haven't thought about the possibility of piecing together
>> a system using various cards. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to
>> look into it.
>>
>> Budget is a concern for me. So ideally I would like to spend around $500
>> USD on the actual computer. Is that realistic for the type of computer I
>> mentioned above?
>>
>> I'm not hardware savvy, so I would have a limited ability to do repairs
>> on the electronics. I do know someone who is though, so I might be able
>> to get some help on this project.
>>
>> I wish you an excellent week,
>>
>> Vicente
>> vicente@collares.ca

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Dan Cross]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:41 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> They are also UP, so SunOS 4 will run on them...

As I recall, SunOS 4 would run on MP machines, though with some
restrictions.  Perhaps only one CPU could be in the kernel at any
given time?

        - Dan C.

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:37 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yet another reason why I suggested a SPARCstation 2 or 5; of all of the machines from that time period those are ones that will at least be reasonable with power consumption.
> >
> > -Henry
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 23:20, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 1:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> >> > Can I suggest you start with OpenSIMH - https://OpenSimH.org and try running any a simulated system.   It's a lot cheaper and while quite the same has having the the actual hardware, a lot easier to manage and most everything you could do from the old days can be done on you personal computer.   If you want BlinkenLights, get one on of Occar's wonderful PiDP11 kits - https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11  (which run OpenSIMH behind his lights and switches). Again a lot small and will meet you budget constraints.
> >>
> >> Another side of that is power consumption. The older machines will
> >> absolutely drink energy; OpenSIMH on a modern SBC is so much more
> >> efficient in that regard.
> >>
> >>         - Dan C.
> >>
> >> > On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:08 PM Vicente Collares via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello Milo,
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:38:54 -0400
> >> >> Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > What’s your budget and what’s your level of hardware technical skill? If budget is no concern, there are occasional complete pdp11 or vaxen on eBay. Or, you could get CPU cards and interfaces to piece together a system. If you go that route a Unibone or Qbone is highly recommended for both debugging and filling in hardwar gaps via emulation. Alternatively, there are several FPGA projects to emulate -11s.
> >> >>
> >> >> Buying a complete PDP-11 or VAX is the dream, but it's not what I'm
> >> >> aiming for to start. I was thinking of something like a UNIX
> >> >> workstation. I haven't thought about the possibility of piecing together
> >> >> a system using various cards. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to
> >> >> look into it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Budget is a concern for me. So ideally I would like to spend around $500
> >> >> USD on the actual computer. Is that realistic for the type of computer I
> >> >> mentioned above?
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not hardware savvy, so I would have a limited ability to do repairs
> >> >> on the electronics. I do know someone who is though, so I might be able
> >> >> to get some help on this project.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wish you an excellent week,
> >> >>
> >> >> Vicente
> >> >> vicente@collares.ca

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Henry Bent]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4886 bytes --]

Maybe Larry can chime in here?  I don't know any of the intricacies of
Sun's MP support, I only run the hardware.  It's SunOS 4.1.4 patched all
the way up.

-Henry

On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 at 08:50, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:14 AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I sent a response only to Warner by accident.  SunOS 4 runs just
> fine on MP machines, I have a dual processor HyperSPARC SS10 running right
> now.  The MP support isn't ideal by modern standards but for the time
> period it's fine, and it definitely works well.
>
> Hmmm, I thought OS/MP was the only SunOS 4 that ran on MP machines. I
> worked at Solbourne at the time. It went through the normal
> progression: ASMP in OS/MP 4.0C with SMP in OS/MP 4.1A (corresponding
> to 4.0.3 and 4.1.1 respectively). When I left, the only Sun OS that
> ran on MP was Solaris 2.x. SunOS 4.0 and 4.1 definitely needed a lot
> of love to get up and running on Solbourne's machines. We were happy
> when we had 16 CPU systems that scaled to about 12x the single CPU
> performance. At the time, all our contacts at Sun said that Solaris
> was the only MP OS they'd ever produce. There were like 3-5 man years
> of effort in the project by the time it was fully SMP. I did leave the
> Solbourne sphere in 1994 though.
>
> When / how did it happen? Or is it another third party port?
>
> Warner
>
> > -Henry
> >
> > On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 at 08:09, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:41 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >> > They are also UP, so SunOS 4 will run on them...
> >>
> >> As I recall, SunOS 4 would run on MP machines, though with some
> >> restrictions.  Perhaps only one CPU could be in the kernel at any
> >> given time?
> >>
> >>         - Dan C.
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:37 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Yet another reason why I suggested a SPARCstation 2 or 5; of all of
> the machines from that time period those are ones that will at least be
> reasonable with power consumption.
> >> > >
> >> > > -Henry
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 23:20, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 1:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> >> > >> > Can I suggest you start with OpenSIMH - https://OpenSimH.org
> and try running any a simulated system.   It's a lot cheaper and while
> quite the same has having the the actual hardware, a lot easier to manage
> and most everything you could do from the old days can be done on you
> personal computer.   If you want BlinkenLights, get one on of Occar's
> wonderful PiDP11 kits -
> https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11  (which run
> OpenSIMH behind his lights and switches). Again a lot small and will meet
> you budget constraints.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Another side of that is power consumption. The older machines will
> >> > >> absolutely drink energy; OpenSIMH on a modern SBC is so much more
> >> > >> efficient in that regard.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>         - Dan C.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:08 PM Vicente Collares via TUHS <
> tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Hello Milo,
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:38:54 -0400
> >> > >> >> Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > What’s your budget and what’s your level of hardware
> technical skill? If budget is no concern, there are occasional complete
> pdp11 or vaxen on eBay. Or, you could get CPU cards and interfaces to piece
> together a system. If you go that route a Unibone or Qbone is highly
> recommended for both debugging and filling in hardwar gaps via emulation.
> Alternatively, there are several FPGA projects to emulate -11s.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Buying a complete PDP-11 or VAX is the dream, but it's not what
> I'm
> >> > >> >> aiming for to start. I was thinking of something like a UNIX
> >> > >> >> workstation. I haven't thought about the possibility of piecing
> together
> >> > >> >> a system using various cards. Thanks for pointing that out,
> I'll have to
> >> > >> >> look into it.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Budget is a concern for me. So ideally I would like to spend
> around $500
> >> > >> >> USD on the actual computer. Is that realistic for the type of
> computer I
> >> > >> >> mentioned above?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm not hardware savvy, so I would have a limited ability to do
> repairs
> >> > >> >> on the electronics. I do know someone who is though, so I might
> be able
> >> > >> >> to get some help on this project.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I wish you an excellent week,
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Vicente
> >> > >> >> vicente@collares.ca
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6956 bytes --]

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Dan Cross]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:50 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:14 AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, I sent a response only to Warner by accident.  SunOS 4 runs just fine on MP machines, I have a dual processor HyperSPARC SS10 running right now.  The MP support isn't ideal by modern standards but for the time period it's fine, and it definitely works well.
>
> Hmmm, I thought OS/MP was the only SunOS 4 that ran on MP machines. I
> worked at Solbourne at the time. It went through the normal
> progression: ASMP in OS/MP 4.0C with SMP in OS/MP 4.1A (corresponding
> to 4.0.3 and 4.1.1 respectively). When I left, the only Sun OS that
> ran on MP was Solaris 2.x. SunOS 4.0 and 4.1 definitely needed a lot
> of love to get up and running on Solbourne's machines. We were happy
> when we had 16 CPU systems that scaled to about 12x the single CPU
> performance. At the time, all our contacts at Sun said that Solaris
> was the only MP OS they'd ever produce. There were like 3-5 man years
> of effort in the project by the time it was fully SMP. I did leave the
> Solbourne sphere in 1994 though.
>
> When / how did it happen? Or is it another third party port?

I don't know when exactly it came around.  It was definitely in 4.1.4,
and I'm also certain it was in 4.1.3/4.1.3_U1.

If Wikipedia can be trusted, it says that MP support came in 4.1.2,
for the SPARCserver 600MP systems.  It looks like it only supported up
to 4 CPUs.

        - Dan C.


> > On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 at 08:09, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:41 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >> > They are also UP, so SunOS 4 will run on them...
> >>
> >> As I recall, SunOS 4 would run on MP machines, though with some
> >> restrictions.  Perhaps only one CPU could be in the kernel at any
> >> given time?
> >>
> >>         - Dan C.
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:37 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Yet another reason why I suggested a SPARCstation 2 or 5; of all of the machines from that time period those are ones that will at least be reasonable with power consumption.
> >> > >
> >> > > -Henry
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 23:20, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 1:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> >> > >> > Can I suggest you start with OpenSIMH - https://OpenSimH.org and try running any a simulated system.   It's a lot cheaper and while quite the same has having the the actual hardware, a lot easier to manage and most everything you could do from the old days can be done on you personal computer.   If you want BlinkenLights, get one on of Occar's wonderful PiDP11 kits - https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11  (which run OpenSIMH behind his lights and switches). Again a lot small and will meet you budget constraints.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Another side of that is power consumption. The older machines will
> >> > >> absolutely drink energy; OpenSIMH on a modern SBC is so much more
> >> > >> efficient in that regard.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>         - Dan C.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:08 PM Vicente Collares via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Hello Milo,
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:38:54 -0400
> >> > >> >> Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > What’s your budget and what’s your level of hardware technical skill? If budget is no concern, there are occasional complete pdp11 or vaxen on eBay. Or, you could get CPU cards and interfaces to piece together a system. If you go that route a Unibone or Qbone is highly recommended for both debugging and filling in hardwar gaps via emulation. Alternatively, there are several FPGA projects to emulate -11s.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Buying a complete PDP-11 or VAX is the dream, but it's not what I'm
> >> > >> >> aiming for to start. I was thinking of something like a UNIX
> >> > >> >> workstation. I haven't thought about the possibility of piecing together
> >> > >> >> a system using various cards. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to
> >> > >> >> look into it.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Budget is a concern for me. So ideally I would like to spend around $500
> >> > >> >> USD on the actual computer. Is that realistic for the type of computer I
> >> > >> >> mentioned above?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm not hardware savvy, so I would have a limited ability to do repairs
> >> > >> >> on the electronics. I do know someone who is though, so I might be able
> >> > >> >> to get some help on this project.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I wish you an excellent week,
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Vicente
> >> > >> >> vicente@collares.ca

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Warner Losh]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 9:56 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:50 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:14 AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Sorry, I sent a response only to Warner by accident.  SunOS 4 runs just fine on MP machines, I have a dual processor HyperSPARC SS10 running right now.  The MP support isn't ideal by modern standards but for the time period it's fine, and it definitely works well.
> >
> > Hmmm, I thought OS/MP was the only SunOS 4 that ran on MP machines. I
> > worked at Solbourne at the time. It went through the normal
> > progression: ASMP in OS/MP 4.0C with SMP in OS/MP 4.1A (corresponding
> > to 4.0.3 and 4.1.1 respectively). When I left, the only Sun OS that
> > ran on MP was Solaris 2.x. SunOS 4.0 and 4.1 definitely needed a lot
> > of love to get up and running on Solbourne's machines. We were happy
> > when we had 16 CPU systems that scaled to about 12x the single CPU
> > performance. At the time, all our contacts at Sun said that Solaris
> > was the only MP OS they'd ever produce. There were like 3-5 man years
> > of effort in the project by the time it was fully SMP. I did leave the
> > Solbourne sphere in 1994 though.
> >
> > When / how did it happen? Or is it another third party port?
>
> I don't know when exactly it came around.  It was definitely in 4.1.4,
> and I'm also certain it was in 4.1.3/4.1.3_U1.
>
> If Wikipedia can be trusted, it says that MP support came in 4.1.2,
> for the SPARCserver 600MP systems.  It looks like it only supported up
> to 4 CPUs.

There's #ifdef MUlTIPROCESSOR in the 4.1.3 and 4.1.4 trees that
leaked. But it looks like they only work for sun4m machines have real
defines...

I'd been told at the time, over lunch, that even those code bases
didn't have MP support, but it may have been SMP support was
lacking...

Warner

>         - Dan C.
>
>
> > > On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 at 08:09, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:41 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> > >> > They are also UP, so SunOS 4 will run on them...
> > >>
> > >> As I recall, SunOS 4 would run on MP machines, though with some
> > >> restrictions.  Perhaps only one CPU could be in the kernel at any
> > >> given time?
> > >>
> > >>         - Dan C.
> > >>
> > >> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 11:37 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Yet another reason why I suggested a SPARCstation 2 or 5; of all of the machines from that time period those are ones that will at least be reasonable with power consumption.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -Henry
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 23:20, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 1:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> > >> > >> > Can I suggest you start with OpenSIMH - https://OpenSimH.org and try running any a simulated system.   It's a lot cheaper and while quite the same has having the the actual hardware, a lot easier to manage and most everything you could do from the old days can be done on you personal computer.   If you want BlinkenLights, get one on of Occar's wonderful PiDP11 kits - https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11  (which run OpenSIMH behind his lights and switches). Again a lot small and will meet you budget constraints.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Another side of that is power consumption. The older machines will
> > >> > >> absolutely drink energy; OpenSIMH on a modern SBC is so much more
> > >> > >> efficient in that regard.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>         - Dan C.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:08 PM Vicente Collares via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> Hello Milo,
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 13:38:54 -0400
> > >> > >> >> Milo Velimirović <milovelimirovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> > What’s your budget and what’s your level of hardware technical skill? If budget is no concern, there are occasional complete pdp11 or vaxen on eBay. Or, you could get CPU cards and interfaces to piece together a system. If you go that route a Unibone or Qbone is highly recommended for both debugging and filling in hardwar gaps via emulation. Alternatively, there are several FPGA projects to emulate -11s.
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> Buying a complete PDP-11 or VAX is the dream, but it's not what I'm
> > >> > >> >> aiming for to start. I was thinking of something like a UNIX
> > >> > >> >> workstation. I haven't thought about the possibility of piecing together
> > >> > >> >> a system using various cards. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to
> > >> > >> >> look into it.
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> Budget is a concern for me. So ideally I would like to spend around $500
> > >> > >> >> USD on the actual computer. Is that realistic for the type of computer I
> > >> > >> >> mentioned above?
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> I'm not hardware savvy, so I would have a limited ability to do repairs
> > >> > >> >> on the electronics. I do know someone who is though, so I might be able
> > >> > >> >> to get some help on this project.
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> I wish you an excellent week,
> > >> > >> >>
> > >> > >> >> Vicente
> > >> > >> >> vicente@collares.ca

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[David Arnold]

> On 11 Jun 2025, at 23:56, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:50 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:14 AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sorry, I sent a response only to Warner by accident.  SunOS 4 runs just fine on MP machines, I have a dual processor HyperSPARC SS10 running right now.  The MP support isn't ideal by modern standards but for the time period it's fine, and it definitely works well.
>> 
>> Hmmm, I thought OS/MP was the only SunOS 4 that ran on MP machines.

At one time I had a SPARCserver1000 with 6 (out of 8 possible) sun4d CPUs. 

I can’t confirm it now, but I’m pretty sure it was not supported by SunOS 4.x; I ran SunOS 5.8 on it I think. 

Which is consistent with Wikipedia’s claim that SunOS 4.x supported sun4m but not sun4d (and the XDBus).




d

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Larry McVoy]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 06:01:23AM +1000, David Arnold wrote:
> > On 11 Jun 2025, at 23:56, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ???On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:50???AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 8:14???AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Sorry, I sent a response only to Warner by accident.  SunOS 4 runs just fine on MP machines, I have a dual processor HyperSPARC SS10 running right now.  The MP support isn't ideal by modern standards but for the time period it's fine, and it definitely works well.
> >> 
> >> Hmmm, I thought OS/MP was the only SunOS 4 that ran on MP machines.
> 
> At one time I had a SPARCserver1000 with 6 (out of 8 possible) sun4d CPUs. 
> 
> I can???t confirm it now, but I???m pretty sure it was not supported by SunOS 4.x; I ran SunOS 5.8 on it I think. 
> 
> Which is consistent with Wikipedia???s claim that SunOS 4.x supported sun4m but not sun4d (and the XDBus).

All correct.  I believe sun4m was the only SMP that ran 4.x, everything
else was Solaris.

As an aside, Solaris was slow as molasses on sun4d (aka Sun Dragon).  I was
pushing for a clustered answer and Ken Okin stole a couple of pallets of
IPXes and maybe some sun4m machines.  I did a clustered NFS server that
ran circles around Sun Dragon at the time.  Ken came down to the machine
room where I was running an NFS benchmark and watched for a while.  That
afternoon I had a $2 million budget to get started.  All Ken said was 
"Your lights blink more" which was true, the same benchmark on Sun Dragon
was less than half of the performance of the cluster.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[H.J.Thomassen]

I still have two 19" racks with the main components of the PDP-11/45, 
built in 1972, on which we started using UNIX 5th Edition in late summer 
1974. Later it ran 6th and 7th Ed. CPU with front panel w. switches and 
lamps, RK03 cartridge disk (2.5Mb!), floating point processor board 
(serial number 1), several core memory banks among which 8K ones, 
DEC-tape, ASR33-TTY, dozens of mini-lightbulbs, not a single LED. Its 
hour-meter has clocked 122532: that's 13,97 years.
It is complete but doesn't run. I remember from the days when I 
administered it during its productive life that it required .5 day of 
maintenance per six weeks, by a qualified service engineer: tuning power 
supplies, adjusting the disk head with the help of a special "alignment" 
disk cartridge, checking the fans (25+ in just those two racks), etc. etc.
The CPU consists of 17 large PCBs. The combined MTBF of these PCBs was 
1.5 years approx. Then the service engineer came with his box with 
exchange boards and swapped until the machine was up&running again. 
Without a maintenance contract such a board had a 5-figure exchange fee.....

Hendrik-Jan Thomassen

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS]

Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> writes:

> If that's your interest, PDP-11's are absolutely _the_ way to go. The
> PDP-11 is _the_ machine that made UNIX. [...]

I have a couple of them running - two 11/23 machines running PWB 1.0
(i.e. 6th edition plus various improvements), and two 11/83 machines
with 2.11BSD on them.

The 11/23 boxes are newer than 6th edition, which didn't support MSCP
devices, so some work had to be done to get that retrofitted.  There are
some notes on this on my web site: https://hamartun.priv.no/ (including
links to, among others, Noel Chiappa's excellent collection of PDP-11
information).

-tih
-- 
The creation of the state of Israel was a regrettable mistake.  It is
time to undo this mistake, and finally re-establish a free Palestine.

[TUHS] Re: Do you have any historical UNIX computers?

[Clem Cole]

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There's a nice UDA/KDA emulation that uses SD cards or basically anything
on the Linux side.   I helped Dave Plummer (Dave's Garage fame) get it
working with 2.11BSD on an 11/85 as a second KDA which 2.11 did not want to
do.   I suspect that's the way to go these days.   He has it emulating
RA92's and a few other things.  Since this is more about HW than UNIX
specifically, we should take it off line.


Clem

On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 4:40 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:

>     > From: Vicente Collares
>
>     > I'm more interested in its historical signaficance.
>
> If that's your interest, PDP-11's are absolutely _the_ way to go. The
> PDP-11
> is _the_ machine that made UNIX. That choice has good points, and a very
> bad
> point, though.
>
> Good points are that QBUS PDP-11's are pretty easy to find, pretty small
> (desktop PC-sized), and not very expensive. They're pretty robust, too - I
> have a large stack of PDP-11 QBUS CPUs, and none of them had failed, as of
> the
> last time that I powered them on.
>
> The very bad point is that working mass storage for them is very hard to
> find. The controllers are around, but not the drives.
>
> Does anyone know if anyone is making a QBUS mass storage clone? Bridgham
> and
> I were going to produce QBUS RK11/RP11 clone that used SD cards to hold the
> bits. We got the prototype working, and it booted UNIX, but then I came
> down
> with COVID and post-COVID myalgic encephalomyelitis, and that was the end
> of
> that.
>
>         Noel
>

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