From: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] moving directories in svr2
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 13:37:29 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W67EWpn+5YQ=7deO-=v8RhEbu_GR8ppNMyo1d6rjwOhiw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20211231182334.GO31637@mcvoy.com>
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On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 1:23 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 10:54 AM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Slightly older, but also slightly more fundamental to the system, you
> need
> > > look no farther than Solaris's `/bin/sh` for an illustrated example of
> the
> > > pros and cons of maintaining backwards compatibility. [snip]
> > >
> >
> > Sun is not the exemplar here: the move from SunOS 4's BSD userland to
> > Solaris 2's SVR4 broke tons of things. They didn't seem to mind that
> their
> > customers had to pay the cost of adaptation.
>
> I was there for that and I minded like crazy. It was a hugely bad move
> in my opinion. Time has not changed that.
>
Yeah. I work on Illumos now for Oxide, and it's...fine? But it took a long
time to get there.
When the SunOS->Solaris changeover happened, the thing that really tripped
me up was `awk`. SunOS 4's awk was nawk, but Solaris 2's awk was 7th Ed awk
and lacked functions and so forth. nawk was available as `nawk`, but it
seemed like a gratuitous regression and we had to modify a lot of local
shell scripts and so on.
> The Linux example is also a bit strange. The move from e.g. `ifconfig` and
> > `netstat to `ip` and `ss` required lots of local retooling
>
> I never understood why Linux did that.
>
I've been dealing with a couple of Linux machines over the break, and
trying to do things the canonical way instead of running back to the
familiar tools, but some things just aren't supported. `ss` doesn't know
about some of the more exotic address families, like AX.25 and NET/ROM. I
can certainly understand why (talk about a hobbyist niche...) but the irony
is that I had to install `netstat` anyway.
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-31 18:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-30 3:45 Noel Chiappa
2021-12-30 4:02 ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-30 16:40 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-12-30 22:31 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-31 0:43 ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-31 1:00 ` Rob Pike
2021-12-31 1:45 ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-31 2:23 ` Adam Thornton
2021-12-31 18:56 ` Chet Ramey
2021-12-31 3:08 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-12-31 3:23 ` Rob Pike
2021-12-31 5:16 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-12-31 5:21 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-31 5:55 ` Rob Pike
2021-12-31 13:32 ` Michael Kjörling
2021-12-31 15:53 ` Adam Thornton
2021-12-31 16:13 ` Arthur Krewat
2021-12-31 18:17 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-31 18:23 ` Larry McVoy
2021-12-31 18:37 ` Dan Cross [this message]
2021-12-31 18:29 ` Arthur Krewat
2022-01-01 0:09 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-01-03 13:35 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-03 20:23 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-01-03 20:45 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-03 21:15 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-03 22:26 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-01-03 23:10 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-04 15:45 ` Chet Ramey
2022-01-09 19:28 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-03 23:21 ` Doug McIntyre
2022-01-03 23:37 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-04 14:49 ` Stuart Remphrey
2022-01-03 23:44 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-03 23:56 ` [TUHS] SMP: BSD vs System V (once was: moving directories in svr2) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-07 19:01 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-09 17:31 ` Stuart Remphrey
2022-01-13 2:35 ` Kevin Bowling
2022-01-03 23:56 ` [TUHS] moving directories in svr2 Warner Losh
2022-01-04 2:28 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-01-04 2:42 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-04 9:28 ` [TUHS] Mythical Distress Sale (was Re: moving directories in svr2) Rob Gingell
2022-01-04 15:17 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-04 15:26 ` arnold
2022-01-04 15:40 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-04 15:48 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-03 22:57 ` [TUHS] moving directories in svr2 Phil Budne
2022-01-04 15:40 ` [TUHS] VRFs (was Re: moving directories in svr2) Derek Fawcus
2021-12-31 5:12 ` [TUHS] moving directories in svr2 Bakul Shah
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-12-29 19:33 Noel Chiappa
2021-12-30 3:40 ` Jay Logue via TUHS
2021-12-29 19:13 Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-29 19:37 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-29 20:15 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-29 20:42 ` Richard Salz
2021-12-29 20:58 ` Dan Cross
2021-12-29 21:20 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-30 3:15 ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-29 17:12 Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-29 16:59 Bakul Shah
2021-12-29 17:04 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-29 17:14 ` arnold
2021-12-29 17:38 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-29 17:49 ` Brantley Coile
2021-12-29 18:27 ` ron minnich
2021-12-29 20:59 ` Rob Pike
2021-12-29 14:33 Will Senn
2021-12-29 15:02 ` arnold
2021-12-29 15:38 ` Will Senn
2021-12-29 15:44 ` Richard Salz
2021-12-29 16:17 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-29 16:58 ` Richard Salz
2021-12-30 5:14 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-12-30 16:22 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-30 18:02 ` John Cowan
2021-12-30 23:04 ` Richard Salz
2021-12-29 15:17 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-29 15:44 ` Will Senn
2021-12-29 16:10 ` Clem Cole
2021-12-29 16:33 ` Warner Losh
2021-12-29 16:01 ` Bakul Shah
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