From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17658 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2022 17:51:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Sep 2022 17:51:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0338D40A26; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 03:51:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f171.google.com (mail-oi1-f171.google.com [209.85.167.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD72D40A25 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 03:51:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f171.google.com with SMTP id m81so13351482oia.1 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:51:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=p9y9Xr/XzcEnpRNJ/hpJ1GJ3iBQUIRPWCXhFOlhpJLY=; b=L6gZl2Vz4EWAbC21bUw/83KJVz0ivTJP/ARl3oENQFJXx4Qobr+/Dd3i3dai8kG729 PzbU0PwMDghArO9bXKNOtWP9TBWwnHazaPgFn02GFbd2c+RCDEEPwInV8dYXlDqZH6nQ 3dAr7ATjLpyorbdHtRPyfh1OhldNpPOOe8p8LJUoguShQuudnBVEDSFJO6snkWNv7hI7 djZSwbqSHuJ5/8fIktlIny2o/eNjnGIQe4Zcm7++81vuZ9zrsXwmO1oghLQGsDhO7aNc xQLYXwts8luohqSJIcWYnOpIsy1zlJP6XWHCY/K5LLj9EjI+CJ2H7dXHYye2RvIF7Awy fSKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=p9y9Xr/XzcEnpRNJ/hpJ1GJ3iBQUIRPWCXhFOlhpJLY=; b=h1Ve3ffk7CjHPO1pebtVfQ9ha7H4ZFNSlxrCGmmYf7DoILFFxm67y3jdivlStEPnq5 bzI/BNpi5q59Ud/5xsWSlls4sOF0Hy6FOOM0E7o3GuivrOrFyge2Npl4NLuH6rl3Gyci Vfv/ViKbSNOaK7OOM0ulx94rrSHfLy6FN7el9MXOXOFbIIT8DAUmd6jb2VpU6bHi0nOZ d8B2zYE32/U/QpTH3sGbX+fZ9sjb52Z5pwOeXxuVOppdHLN7TR4Co79ybd53+XLVd/J5 sTorI4CdL8itPAcJiA6ZcK+eX4gM6TD4yXk31akcPZ0Sv8+2ATRLRvVINorHIfyW+BRe NRAg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf36WFnnuBtZ05ZL9G2egcRP3CUK/dCCjV3YNSfSNRwjv14iY1cM TBu1HauIaBKS7l23A9msQdfCoelkLbaqBu5aS5cZ1cro X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7noYUmVEto0f3gRZl2VJSsr8gPwF5vuFrgbHLYV58yvgpxRHIyRKpTAeKCRDhMjY46G9rpt+EPGXA/gyvRa1k= X-Received: by 2002:aca:2b09:0:b0:34f:f6c3:da6f with SMTP id i9-20020aca2b09000000b0034ff6c3da6fmr2255069oik.49.1663869020168; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:50:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202209220842.28M8gtYE020021@freefriends.org> <20220922090050.9405B200BA@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <7wczbnwdih.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: <7wczbnwdih.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:49:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: Lars Brinkhoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: KUO6UANZMUGBLUP6E5K3ZRKPH5CJB7VT X-Message-ID-Hash: KUO6UANZMUGBLUP6E5K3ZRKPH5CJB7VT X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Berkeley 11/70 (was Re: Strange Reference on Usenix_77 tape) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 1:00 PM Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Warner Losh wrote: > > > For those of us not involved with Unix in 1977, what was the > > > HRSTS system? > > > > =E2=80=98The Harvard/Radcliffe Student Time-sharing System Terminal Us= ers Guide, > > 1st edition, September 10, 1974, Center for Research in Computing > > Technology, Harvard University=E2=80=99. > > > > These are the same folks that also did the LISP that appeared in > > various 2BSD distributions as well. There's a special C compiler. > > I found a description in a Usenix paper[1], and it really seems to be a > lot of "Harvard specials" in there. MACRO-11, LINK-11, DDT, TECO, > FILCOM, shell with TENEX file completion, even ECL[2]. To me it looks > like a layer of PDP-10 on top of Unix. > > [1] https://www.usenix.org/system/files/login/articles/login_june_11_unix= _news.pdf > [2] https://github.com/PDP-10/harvard-ecl Thanks, that was very interesting. Indeed, it sounds like at attempt to bring a TENEX-style user experience to Unix. Also interesting was the short article about, "the Berkeley 11/70 System" with notes from Ken. The description of the UID scheme to separate students from "regular" users and the note that "the group concept is about to disappear" were particularly intriguing; clearly an evolutionary dead end, but striking in that this must have yielded a much greater level of isolation. Also, the note about per-directory quotas (as opposed to per-user/group quotas) was interesting. I wonder what other early attempts at hardening the system for educational environments were made that similarly didn't make it in the long haul, and to what extent such efforts have survived? - Dan C.