From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24077 invoked from network); 26 May 2020 19:56:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 May 2020 19:56:32 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0F8639C910; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:56:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF639C765; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:56:18 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="GDQweWHq"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 994AF9C83B; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:56:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f179.google.com (mail-qt1-f179.google.com [209.85.160.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 386659C765 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:56:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f179.google.com with SMTP id e16so11357211qtg.0 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 12:56:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=N+QIJ00a+sH1uSOAoz3XLe+ggcKY7RJSu2OuoRjzD4E=; b=GDQweWHqLN05Jjy0f/T88rwLZfnSpj5Pk/dJEdIcicUFlDT7UKI20ojWEpfVvT8FoH 8LVl6aj2FK8ZaAa5yn0REbsBXU36jIbPMzlYzlKADEM8DaIOU8DNT/OMOsUiz6OFSV88 9zhvXdIDIiuH89e6mgfj4vNMWfVnSfoqD4Y3E9e/oAoWZ0i5xyBC4WqdZb+gvpxSBkck k/OzcS199fefDrzO0cW9B66Z7CRdR1ia7+8qJt78HTwHO9y6hhCZ4hIxJci4uKMqreJu MHPujz/bIzjQgkwdUT7pdXYuEEHFuJs7X+vupsqbQnG2QOR2yMzMYCVBn6gwZcEyhhmw t/QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=N+QIJ00a+sH1uSOAoz3XLe+ggcKY7RJSu2OuoRjzD4E=; b=eBXUPLIfZ6Q2lvjPjXewjnSahJDni9p37dwSxNfvBPkoXOLZ6rL9xzciZJQHSsA44e uSOpXb1hUjeF90n7W9j3qTGkc7vYUeBsEiPbPkXDE7L4EpnoCXo6mf3lpdzQUjNc3/8z aGenW7EIIOX7Fv6Ok4f4eqXmemBigB/AKB1qLTjp1zhzDSRqn/XLJva7X2+Z9fGDMyJv aajDfeKa+kVI+Rit5Xa7/fdAvce/IDUqC8kvOlNnl3xf+e4ItKTbXj5km6elhibKxmJ2 CBjWXa43rGddxty9x8BXkTWfSoyHZK9yBeypuBX9+A1gSFlYrb/NGdLQUI7FnQVX+htL Xq1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uJu+FfkoTvectFl/BMh8VmFRUYINVcjY8VLI6YFCpos9us/Tf v/sjc6SFc2wiMTQG+otr1XGZZnl/8yyN5qZ2l4DBgw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzs6UyimMmQfBlyd061z3ud1sdfG71qYyFKtGyzz7ht2nga3jbM0UplQJKDv0pYiw1GUYrMpvhHQdh2W4UJCZ4= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:65d1:: with SMTP id t17mr559222qto.46.1590522975437; Tue, 26 May 2020 12:56:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> <9e5933a166ece32b4fb17c6bbb563873@firemail.de> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 15:55:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Christopher Browne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f545e105a6927cce" Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , COFF Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000f545e105a6927cce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Cc: to COFF, as this isn't so Unix-y anymore. On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:22 PM Christopher Browne wrote: > [snip] > The Modula family seemed like the better direction; those were still > Pascal-ish, but had nice intentional extensions so that they were not > nearly so "impotent." I recall it being quite popular, once upon a time, > to write code in Modula-2, and run it through a translator to mechanically > transform it into a compatible subset of Ada for those that needed DOD > compatibility. The Modula-2 compilers were wildly smaller and faster for > getting the code working, you'd only run the M2A part once in a while > (probably overnight!) > Wirth's languages (and books!!) are quite nice, and it always surprised and kind of saddened me that Oberon didn't catch on more. Of course Pascal was designed specifically for teaching. I learned it in high school (at the time, it was the language used for the US "AP Computer Science" course), but I was coming from C (with a little FORTRAN sprinkled in) and found it generally annoying; I missed Modula-2, but I thought Oberon was really slick. The default interface (which inspired Plan 9's 'acme') had this neat graphical sorting simulation: one could select different algorithms and vertical bars of varying height were sorted into ascending order to form a rough triangle; one could clearly see the inefficiency of e.g. Bubble sort vs Heapsort. I seem to recall there was a way to set up the (ordinarily randomized) initial conditions to trigger worst-case behavior for quick. I have a vague memory of showing it off in my high school CS class. - Dan C. --000000000000f545e105a6927cce Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: to COFF, as this isn't so Unix-y = anymore.

On Tue, May 26, 2= 020 at 12:22 PM Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]=
The Modula family seemed like the bet= ter direction; those were still Pascal-ish, but had nice intentional extens= ions so that they were not nearly so "impotent."=C2=A0 I recall i= t being quite popular, once upon a time, to write code in Modula-2, and run= it through a translator to mechanically transform it into a compatible sub= set of Ada for those that needed DOD compatibility.=C2=A0 The Modula-2 comp= ilers were wildly smaller and faster for getting the code working, you'= d only run the M2A part once in a while (probably overnight!)

Wirth's languages (and books!!) ar= e quite nice, and it always surprised=C2=A0and kind of saddened me that=C2= =A0Oberon didn't catch on more.

Of course Pasc= al was designed specifically for teaching. I learned it in high school (at = the time, it was the language used for the US "AP Computer Science&quo= t; course), but I was coming from C (with a little FORTRAN sprinkled in) an= d found it generally annoying; I missed Modula-2, but I thought Oberon was = really slick. The default interface (which inspired Plan 9's 'acme&= #39;) had this neat graphical sorting simulation: one could select differen= t algorithms and vertical=C2=A0bars of varying height were sorted into asce= nding order to form a rough triangle; one could clearly see the inefficienc= y of e.g. Bubble sort vs Heapsort. I seem to recall there was a way to set = up=C2=A0the (ordinarily randomized) initial conditions to trigger worst-cas= e behavior for quick.

I have a vague memory of sho= wing it off in my high school CS class.

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

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