From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8559 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2022 13:23:04 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Sep 2022 13:23:04 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BFC41729; Wed, 7 Sep 2022 23:22:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f50.google.com (mail-oa1-f50.google.com [209.85.160.50]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1E3841725 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2022 23:22:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1278624b7c4so17672756fac.5 for ; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 06:22:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=YH6wwfQwaQMHHUbKxLgGEoe14L2gr8T3rBc5PDNz15Q=; b=jCB90GJHWatM/8qthLnxrOoIUNnuge9VQQeQtWl8G4rPhU2L20kUc73AfdFS7KjYHi SgwNQXUdjsjz+WCqHZiQOwEcyprYvAMXEP8Vh/XTp+p1NXrmaGQiVjFvq+L9+06Ve52F Hy/Xh0KgN7+QHKsOf0CB0k1YGMLDrd59hQmlMxqwHkCqTOFxtGaw3bp8ds24TIcKFjfP svxem4DHmCuOIwJSTt6NARBNaETWZc34EQUvbGCsCEqOcV+lG8q2qg8QRMv8856ONQFz twATxRMULhDnyxQIGyaa8oRFczxRjVDb/XBmUNdM202QqXS/vOfmFicZmhxJBrYcabtl B4jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=YH6wwfQwaQMHHUbKxLgGEoe14L2gr8T3rBc5PDNz15Q=; b=osKNYub+CBh6WRgbfpEdmqgKBIDV13EQ7BfCkmY+RdQW6n/y4hsgfd7qVsgwpp3iFv /SsUAullP69/wiv4e16ynax8jez5WA316w62UHRIIrIK8DwJZWUSTXklklrfAN57nLU+ SHikk+N4Qqtc+tPcGRroZqdwjUK6YSgLvLSy6qeAA3Dcv20uHDaHgy5rLbSNp2221qZ3 xJWMA8DmFecAR1Tp4QE2lcL7wt/wT/8xAuEAp1f36bhETlWzHwS4JW8g/Jw8soI26Fm+ cHKGnak0qb5gA06PzIsm2uv1qWApSACmwmzLiuigroBQochcwKPHwXMxyHUSTn8WIOJF O+jw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3DUc+Cofcf7u3clRSG41RbiOIcEKa9uNqhWMzjZe3V4+IE0r3n 0ZXRYyvSuNOv7LXoCykI5JDal0ItGO6PLHO7qnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6lBMKQeNwEUKiHafDX34bCHU24ZEmciyCGQsES/12IigD1dOkRJnXk57+MEidxi8uOHLPfpHR7OuuLwEjtpUQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:f706:b0:11d:4f5c:e7b0 with SMTP id ej6-20020a056870f70600b0011d4f5ce7b0mr1829374oab.49.1662556885024; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <453CCF20-3A01-4655-A956-149EDC08FA36@canb.auug.org.au> <58D7FE83-15EF-40E8-9DEB-4F6B5E45134E@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: <58D7FE83-15EF-40E8-9DEB-4F6B5E45134E@canb.auug.org.au> From: Dan Cross Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 09:20:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: steve jenkin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: HMC3ZK6CTYHI7NTBAXG6ZXMQHFNBLLQ6 X-Message-ID-Hash: HMC3ZK6CTYHI7NTBAXG6ZXMQHFNBLLQ6 X-MailFrom: crossd@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS , Marc Donner X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Has this been discussed on-list? How Unix changed Software. List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:16 AM steve jenkin wrot= e: > There=E2=80=99s an estimated 200M-250M =E2=80=9CPersonal Computers=E2=80= =9D in active use - 10% of all active devices. Even if all run Microsoft an= d not Chromebooks, MS-Windows is now a minor player. This is true, but in some sense has always been true, in that the number of embedded devices using microcontrollers and so forth has always dwarfed the number of desktop PC-class computers in the world (or, rather, has always done so for since the late 70s or so, I'd imagine). However, to call Windows a minor player is to ignore the importance of the applications that run on those desktop machines (and laptops, etc). The PC might be on the decline in absolute market terms, but it seems obvious that for specialist applications we're going to need something resembling it for the foreseeable future. > I=E2=80=99ve no idea how big the fleet of servers powering =E2=80=9CThe C= loud=E2=80=9D in Datacentres is, but inferring from power consumption, it= =E2=80=99s measured in millions. Aggregated across all the major players, I'd put the number at tens of millions, possibly in excess of 100 million at the high end of the estimate range. > Only MS-Azure provide Windows instances and then it runs on top of a hype= rvisor, not bare metal. Is MS Hyper-V derived from a Unix variant? If not, = is certainly influenced by VMware & Xen which were. First, a factual correction: at least Google's cloud and I'm fairly certain AWS can run Windows, not just Azure. Second, I have it directly from folks who worked on Hyper-V that it is neither based on Unix/Linux, nor strongly influenced by either VMWare or Xen. It was an entirely in-house project at MSFT that probably includes more DNA strands from Windows than Unix et al. Some of the stories about clashes with Cutler to change the Windows startup sequence to accommodate Hyper-V are interesting (short version: Cutler, in typical fashion, didn't want to and early versions of Hyper-V basically booted under windows, then "took over" the running machine so that Windows resumed, but suddenly in a VM where it had not been before). > To a first approximation, 90%+ of =E2=80=98computers' now run a Unix vari= ant. [ disregarding the larger fleet of embedded devices, especially in car= s ] > As you say, UNIX & its variants broke the monopoly / lock-in of software = by hardware vendors. The above notwithstanding, I absolutely believe these numbers. Unix and its derivatives (most notably Linux) have become the de-facto platform for modern computation, as you conclude. - Dan C.