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From: Dan Cross <>
To: Clem Cole <>
Cc: Paul Ruizendaal <>,
	The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Porting the SysIII kernel: boot, config & device drivers
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 16:52:35 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <>

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:39 PM Clem Cole <> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:11 PM Dan Cross <> wrote:
>> I'm going to push back on this slightly: UEFI+ACPI get a bad rap
>> because, well, they're really pretty bad. Oh sure, some things are
>> reasonable: the ACPI table formats aren't awful. But I've been inside
>> a couple of these now and phew golly, they stink pretty badly.
> Fair enough.   UEFI+ACPI started from BIOS and really should have been a full re-think and write by senior OS people.


> It was not.   The problem for us techies, is that doing that was not going to save or make anyone $s.
> The problem for management was they wanted to keep the old BIOS around (that's what the customer wanted - cheapest path forward) and unless there was a reason to break from tradition, they were not going too.   Apple could (and did) but HP/Dell et al did not want too.

Yeah. We canc'd it from our product (Oxide machines boot directly from
the x86 reset vector and go almost immediately into Unix; no
BIOS/UEFI+ACPI at all! Of course, there's a bunch of stuff that
happens before the x86 cores come out of reset, but that's a different
kettle of fish). We can get away with this because we control the
hardware and the host software, and the unit of compute our customers
interact with is a virtual machine, not the bare metal. When you
control the horizontal _and_ the vertical, you can put it all in the
host OS, where it arguably belongs. But in a world where software and
hardware are completely decoupled? I don't know how to make the
holistic boot approach work without a lot of system-specific code.
It's obvious that you need some kind of system interface, and for most
vendors, UEFI+ACPI is there and supported by the chip and firmware
vendors, so it's the default. No one ever got fired for using
UEFI/ACPI, I guess.

        - Dan C.

  reply	other threads:[~2022-12-31 21:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-12-30 18:25 [TUHS] " Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-30 18:56 ` [TUHS] " Steve Nickolas
2022-12-31 14:59 ` Dan Cross
2022-12-31 19:08   ` Clem Cole
2022-12-31 21:10     ` Dan Cross
2022-12-31 21:39       ` Clem Cole
2022-12-31 21:52         ` Dan Cross [this message]
2022-12-31 23:25         ` Dave Horsfall
2023-01-01  1:02           ` Rob Pike
2023-01-01  1:16             ` George Michaelson
2023-01-01  1:40               ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-01  2:29                 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01  1:24             ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-31 22:38       ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-12-31 22:55         ` Marc Donner
2023-01-01  3:55         ` Dan Cross
2023-01-01 20:29         ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-01-01 21:26           ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-01 21:31             ` Rob Pike
2022-12-31 21:11     ` Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-31 20:02   ` Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-31 21:04     ` Warner Losh
2022-12-31 21:41     ` Dan Cross
2023-01-01  3:08     ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01  4:40       ` Dan Cross
2023-01-01  8:05     ` Jonathan Gray

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