From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18268 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2020 01:47:03 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Jul 2020 01:47:03 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 85E969C8EB; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:47:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177A69C8DE; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:45:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="bS8ovD8w"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EA25A9C8DE; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:45:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f179.google.com (mail-qt1-f179.google.com [209.85.160.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 600819C8DD for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:45:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f179.google.com with SMTP id j10so702574qtq.11 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:45:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=r2qEKn6XiAxXl/XkB0WzaqA5SM+vbQI/UCPL4VYOpws=; b=bS8ovD8wcJfJVluasoZl9PdVzEchDpGBgOr/I4cdw856j0uU3QejAlXHZsIlP7nw2e pMrmXUYfwXLrS6SKYlGLmLGr1VOSumeSfxyVWrkPGsLtygg+i7AE8yCSHqDNGZ+VgAOC b4RnizQBPR+sg/4On7BxDbMdqZKhTvFuD6raBTu79FMOAr/3YJ/BzYUJnlLmfjQOLhh7 3uEuz7fxSpBqBQwdTljTBCqT05AFxKYMwks+GQxQPEyP9jF6AzAz98S6MIuAb924fPkY sVGUkNha4sINXYpqbTocCFIEbjfXnvvFTCtJxp1ZGAzdfTsJbHUlrPYJaK01XI/TIdsR pO4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=r2qEKn6XiAxXl/XkB0WzaqA5SM+vbQI/UCPL4VYOpws=; b=iPS5E/IDzCkyJm9ZxQO5V4FsqWm/wCqXUkDp4av1iOHNiqcHQ9HgEIj22Tsrl8Y9+N jPSe6GP0CMjhK7VG7QEZMlkiTU2k8zx3nMVggO8vc+C6L9giGk7geJCkRHrefyaJt8bk jTJ+Tzx40Jj0Ubc7LF9H426Cep/kNVNDZ8Wd2QdjksZaoh+O70wCE0eGxGk+QwCbMx04 SUavEN7cXauOFO/B5vrQj0+9d5LY/Ke105b9XPuIo8K0P/MsjIg16WYFBQB6FrR4RBR2 aPHlwqILJjuQYU+9zkXOHdWKufYYnsQTt2ueaGA0goob8iLfYRattSmi7e69GUKFw0Qi hjJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5337ieAUofgu+nhNiVK4wGRMnKYWuGSIHVR02Gi41u5WLkwqPsm+ tx2d5u3RB0SxdWYgAy6UOhTTNYl4mfCgjWnR+nM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzy+9SwBs+etmFB5NoGb+Gqei9n1xnRlbYuEcXmN+gBrvbc+4a2ZDxuOHIf1BOecHEjlCS3VWl2xJZRRcNcO5Q= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3ff9:: with SMTP id v54mr32160011qtk.352.1595382307381; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:45:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <862d8a34-456d-33c1-7ef0-58c6e8089de9@tnetconsulting.net> <202007211822.06LIMBJ4018831@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Cross Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6653005aafde3e8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] /bin vs /sbin X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b6653005aafde3e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:35 PM Warner Losh wrote: > On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:23 PM wrote: > >> [snip] > > The idea was that /etc held things specific to a box, while /bin, /sbin, >> /usr could be remote mounted from a server. This is also when /home >> came into practice as the place to hold home directories. >> >> This avoided having umpteen zillion copies of the same files >> (executables, man pages, libraries, etc.) since they could be mounted >> read-only from one or a few servers. At the time, disk space was not >> nearly as cheap as it is now. >> > > A big cost savings in having 20 diskless workstations was that you didn't > need the 2-4gb of disks for each individual one, but instead could have one > copy of the 100MB-200MB of the core OS. When. X started getting libraries > out the wazoo with toolkit wars, it saved even more. IIRC, the Sun 3/50's > ethernet port was faster than its disk port, so your diskless workstation > could be faster than one with a disk (assuming the network wasn't > overloaded). > When I first came on the scene, there was a convention that I thought worked well: the "dataless" node. I have no idea why it was called that; I suppose because most interesting data was on a centrally managed file server. Anyway, this was under SunOS 4: the idea was that each node had a small disk; enough to hold / and swap, but mounted /usr, /usr/local and user directories from a file server. So commonly used stuff (/bin/csh, ls, etc etc) all came from a local disk, while everything else was shared. Disks in workstations were small and basically turn-key so that we didn't back them up: if one crashed, oh well: throw a new one in it and reimage /. Swap was transient anyway. A variation was to have an owning-user's home directory on the node if the local disk was big enough. Sometimes there'd be a /scratch partition for bulk storage that persisted across reboots (/tmp came from tmpfs and was a swap-backed RAM disk). We'd back up local home dirs and maybe the scratch directories. In our network, we used `amd` and NIS (YP!) to get access to everyone's home dir on every node. I rather liked the overall setup; it was nice. It became a deprecated configuration on the move to Solaris 2.x: a workstation was either diskfull or diskless. The idea of a compromise between the two extremes went away. - Dan C. --000000000000b6653005aafde3e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:35 PM Warner Lo= sh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:23 PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
[snip]
The idea was that /etc held things specific to a box, while /bin, /sbin, /usr could be remote mounted from a server.=C2=A0 This is also when /home came into practice as the place to hold home directories.

This avoided having umpteen zillion copies of the same files
(executables, man pages, libraries, etc.) since they could be mounted
read-only from one or a few servers.=C2=A0 At the time, disk space was not<= br> nearly as cheap as it is now.

A big cos= t savings in having 20 diskless workstations was that you didn't need t= he 2-4gb of disks for each individual one, but instead could have one copy = of the 100MB-200MB of the core OS. When. X started getting libraries out th= e wazoo with toolkit wars, it saved even more. IIRC, the Sun 3/50's eth= ernet port was faster than its disk port, so your diskless workstation coul= d be faster than one with a disk (assuming the network wasn't overloade= d).

When I first came on = the scene, there was a convention that I thought worked well: the "dat= aless" node. I have no idea why it was called that; I suppose because = most interesting data was on a centrally managed file server. Anyway, this = was under SunOS 4: the idea was that each node had a small disk; enough to = hold / and swap, but mounted /usr, /usr/local and user directories from a f= ile server. So commonly used stuff (/bin/csh, ls, etc etc) all came from a = local disk, while everything else was shared. Disks in workstations were sm= all and basically turn-key so that we didn't back them up: if one crash= ed, oh well: throw a new one in it and reimage /. Swap was transient anyway= . A variation was to have an owning-user's home directory on the node i= f the local disk was big enough. Sometimes there'd be a /scratch partit= ion for bulk storage that persisted across reboots (/tmp came from tmpfs an= d was a swap-backed RAM disk). We'd back up local home dirs and maybe t= he scratch directories.

In our network, we used `a= md` and NIS (YP!) to get access to everyone's home dir on every node.

I rather liked the overall setup; it was nice. It became a dep= recated configuration on the move to Solaris 2.x: a workstation was either = diskfull or diskless. The idea of a compromise between the two extremes wen= t away.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.
=
=C2=A0
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