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From: crossd@gmail.com (Dan Cross)
Subject: [TUHS] System Economics (was is Linux "officially branded UNIX")
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:36:34 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W7jvLBr_HCT-FgYjp3QF6oXF8OXw5pPT1MgygqR5oxw4w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2OrszmfbQmvN7agpPS7DWV6Lo2XnheoP8qv_2Yvqmff=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:

> [...]
> In the end, definition does not change the status of what Unix was.   It
> was the definition of Open Systems -- it was published and I do stand
> behind that.   And in the end, it could not be claimed as trade secret
> because it was ->> by definition<<- open and known. But traditional Unix
> from AT&T was never >>free<< and that fact is not going to change either.
> It may some how in the future, but that past is true and as a result, Linus
> and other did an end-around and created and awesome >>free<< solution.
>
[...]


Hmm, this is quite interesting, but I had different impression of the
definition of "open" at the time: it seemed like what people were saying
when they said that Unix was "open" was much less about the source code,
but rather about the interfaces and APIs; in particular especially after
the standards bodies got together and starting writing down how things were
supposed to work. This led to vendor independence (to some extent, anyway)
and was a distinction from closed systems which were defined by a single
vendor who controlled everything about them (though presumably modulated by
customer demand), including the OS (since this was usually written in-house
for each platform. This even makes historical sense: Unix was written by a
third party who didn't design the hardware).

Consider DEC: In 1981, they had at least three hardware platforms intended
for the timesharing market, each running multiple operating systems: PDP-11
running RSX-11*, RT-11, RSTS/E and Ultrix-11 (Unix); PDP-10 running TOPS-10
and TOPS-20; VAX running VMS and Ultrix-32 (Unix). And this isn't to
mention any of the other stuff they were selling/supporting (PDP-8's, etc).
Of those software systems it's easy to see what Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32
have in common; one has a reasonable shot at getting software written for
one running on the other. Contrast with RT-11 and VMS, or even RT-11 and
RSX. Similarly with IBM, CDC, HP, GE, etc.

In other words, the "openness" in "open systems" wasn't about code *for the
system itself*; it was about freedom from software lock-in to a particular
hardware vendor. Or, perhaps, openness to multiple system vendors
supporting the same customer-written code. "Open" in a sense closer to what
we now call "open source" (meaning the source was available for inspection)
came much later.

        - Dan C.
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-03-16  3:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 67+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-03-14 14:43 Clem Cole
2017-03-14 15:38 ` Larry McVoy
2017-03-14 15:51   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-14 15:56     ` Larry McVoy
2017-03-14 15:57     ` Michael Kjörling
2017-03-14 16:20       ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-14 18:06         ` Jason Stevens
2017-03-14 18:31           ` Clem Cole
2017-03-14 18:59             ` Jason Stevens
2017-03-14 18:20         ` Clem Cole
2017-03-14 19:48           ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-15 14:32             ` Michael Kjörling
2017-03-15 15:36               ` Arthur Krewat
     [not found]                 ` <58c9623b.law1Aw2ufj3DFNA1%schily@schily.net>
2017-03-15 15:54                   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-15 15:59                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-03-15 17:43                   ` Warner Losh
2017-03-15 19:02                     ` Larry McVoy
2017-03-15 19:14                       ` Warner Losh
2017-03-14 18:41         ` Warner Losh
2017-03-17 18:16           ` [TUHS] GNU vs BSD before the lawsuit and before Linux Tony Finch
2017-03-17 18:52             ` Jeremy C. Reed
2017-03-19  7:18               ` arnold
2017-03-19  9:05                 ` Wesley Parish
2017-03-19 18:37                 ` Warner Losh
2017-03-17 19:54             ` Ron Natalie
2017-03-14 18:18   ` [TUHS] System Economics (was is Linux "officially branded UNIX") Clem Cole
2017-03-14 16:20 ` tfb
2017-03-14 22:45 ` Josh Good
2017-03-15  1:11   ` Clem Cole
2017-03-15  7:55     ` arnold
2017-03-15 19:28     ` Josh Good
2017-03-15 19:35       ` Clem Cole
2017-03-15 20:26         ` Ron Natalie
2017-03-15 23:22           ` 'Josh Good'
2017-03-15 19:45       ` Clem Cole
2017-03-15 20:27         ` Larry McVoy
2017-03-15 20:48           ` Clem Cole
2017-03-15 23:46           ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-16  0:45             ` Clem Cole
2017-03-16  1:27               ` Steve Nickolas
2017-03-16  3:09                 ` Ron Natalie
2017-03-16  3:18                   ` Charles Anthony
2017-03-16  3:36               ` Dan Cross [this message]
2017-03-16  4:08                 ` arnold
2017-03-16 12:51               ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-16 13:18                 ` William Pechter
2017-03-17 21:20               ` Josh Good
2017-03-16 15:42           ` Chet Ramey
2017-03-16 17:29             ` William Pechter
2017-03-15 23:55         ` Josh Good
2017-03-16  0:05           ` William Pechter
2017-03-15 20:08       ` Clem Cole
2017-03-16  0:46         ` Wesley Parish
2017-03-16  0:52           ` Clem Cole
2017-03-16 19:47       ` Dave Horsfall
2017-03-17  2:16         ` Jason Stevens
2017-03-17 15:55           ` Warner Losh
2017-03-17 21:11           ` Dave Horsfall
2017-03-14 19:01 Noel Chiappa
2017-03-14 20:05 Clem Cole
2017-03-14 20:16 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-14 20:54 ` Dan Cross
2017-03-14 21:19   ` Clem Cole
2017-03-16 15:40 Norman Wilson
2017-03-16 17:26 ` William Pechter
2017-03-16 18:45   ` Clem Cole
2017-03-16 22:17 ` Dave Horsfall

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