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* [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
@ 2022-01-11 18:36 Dan Cross
  2022-01-11 18:45 ` Larry McVoy
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-01-11 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

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I've been meaning to ask about this for a while....

"... The reason why is because there was tremendous antagonism between New
York and L.A. L.A. was, you know, full of color, full of acid, full of
hippies, and we were not like that.

We dressed in black and white. We did not like free love. ..... We took
amphetamine; they took LSD. They were, you know, sort of loving and happy,
and we were - we weren't really evil, we were more intellectual, more about
art."

[Mary Woronov, in an interview with NPR's Terry Gross on "Fresh Air",
talking about New York City, Warhol's Factory and shows in Los Angeles
while touring with the Velvet Underground:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=241437872]


Note: I am not suggesting that anyone involved with Unix ever took
amphetamines, nor, despite the usual crack about LSD and BSD, that anyone
on the west coast was taking acid, though Markov's "What the Dormouse Said"
would indicate that many of you WERE tripping.

It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts. Notable work in Utah,
Colorado and Chicago aside, it seems the bulk of early Unix work happened
in either the greater New York metro area in northern New Jersey or the
greater Bay area around San Francisco. Notable work was also done in
Massachusetts, but again, that's a coastal state and I think it's fair to
say that most of that was inside the route 128 corridor. Of course work was
done internationally, but I'm particularly curious about differences in US
culture here, and how they influenced things.

The question is, to what extent did differences in coastal cultures
influence things like design aesthetics? I think it's is accurate to
characterize early BTL Unix by it's minimalism, and others have echoed this
(cf. Richard Gabriel in the "Worse is Better" papers). But similarly, BSD
has always felt like a larger system -- didn't Lions go as far as to quip
about the succinctness of 6th Edition being "fixed" by 4BSD?

Anyway, I believe it is fair to say that early Unix has a rather distinct
feel from later BSD-derived systems and the two did evolve in different
geographic locations. Furthermore, the world was not as connected then as
it is now.

So to what extent, if any, was this a function of the larger cultural
forces at play near where that work was taking place?

        - Dan C.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 18:36 [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC Dan Cross
@ 2022-01-11 18:45 ` Larry McVoy
  2022-01-11 18:50 ` John Floren
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2022-01-11 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: TUHS main list

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 01:36:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts. Notable work in Utah,
> Colorado and Chicago aside, it seems the bulk of early Unix work happened
> in either the greater New York metro area in northern New Jersey or the
> greater Bay area around San Francisco. 

There is a reason that a ton of the kernel group at Sun were from Wisconsin,
well, UW-Madison grads.  UW did some porting work, added NFS to BSD, they
were quite active in the 1980s.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 18:36 [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC Dan Cross
  2022-01-11 18:45 ` Larry McVoy
@ 2022-01-11 18:50 ` John Floren
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: John Floren @ 2022-01-11 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: TUHS main list

On Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 10:36 AM, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> The question is, to what extent did differences in coastal cultures influence things like design aesthetics? I think it's is accurate to characterize early BTL Unix by it's minimalism, and others have echoed this (cf. Richard Gabriel in the "Worse is Better" papers). But similarly, BSD has always felt like a larger system -- didn't Lions go as far as to quip about the succinctness of 6th Edition being "fixed" by 4BSD?

I've usually attributed BSD's larger size to the enthusiasm of students who delight in adding nifty little toys and tools and options. Although "the Unix Philosophy" gets invoked in hushed tones today, there was presumably fewer fingers being wagged at the Berkeley kids for daring to experiment (except when they filled up the disk).

john

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 18:36 [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC Dan Cross
  2022-01-11 18:45 ` Larry McVoy
  2022-01-11 18:50 ` John Floren
@ 2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
  2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
                     ` (3 more replies)
  2 siblings, 4 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2022-01-11 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>
>
We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong
group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with
the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was
formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
@ 2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
  2022-01-13 15:44     ` Dan Cross
  2022-01-12 23:15   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2022-01-11 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

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I see a stylistic connection between the style of writing of the manuals
and the New York journalism, especially that of the New Yorker. When I
arrived at Bell Labs, I was a little taken aback by the change of culture
in writing, dressing, and entertainment compared to my years as a grad
student in California. I mean, I fit in - I subscribed to the New Yorker -
but I felt like a bum in a room full of high society folk.

That feeling never really left.

-rob


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 6:35 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>>
>>
> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong
> group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with
> the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was
> formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
@ 2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
  2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-11 22:14       ` Theodore Ts'o
  2022-01-13 15:44     ` Dan Cross
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: George Michaelson @ 2022-01-11 20:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

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Bit of this in ietf too. Inner cohort of vint and similar background wear
three piece suits.

Three: vest not optional.

A west coast mob wear tie-dye tees.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2022, 6:18 am Rob Pike, <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see a stylistic connection between the style of writing of the manuals
> and the New York journalism, especially that of the New Yorker. When I
> arrived at Bell Labs, I was a little taken aback by the change of culture
> in writing, dressing, and entertainment compared to my years as a grad
> student in California. I mean, I fit in - I subscribed to the New Yorker -
> but I felt like a bum in a room full of high society folk.
>
> That feeling never really left.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 6:35 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>>>
>>>
>> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong
>> group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with
>> the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was
>> formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.
>>
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
@ 2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-11 20:57         ` Jon Steinhart
  2022-01-11 22:17         ` John P. Linderman
  2022-01-11 22:14       ` Theodore Ts'o
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2022-01-11 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: George Michaelson; +Cc: TUHS main list

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Similar. Everyone at Bell Labs was so *proper*.  (Except Ken, of course.
Ken is *sui generis*, and a Californian).

I'm sure it wasn't really me, but it felt like I was the first person to
utter a curse word in the Unix room.

-rob





On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 7:26 AM George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> wrote:

> Bit of this in ietf too. Inner cohort of vint and similar background wear
> three piece suits.
>
> Three: vest not optional.
>
> A west coast mob wear tie-dye tees.
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2022, 6:18 am Rob Pike, <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see a stylistic connection between the style of writing of the manuals
>> and the New York journalism, especially that of the New Yorker. When I
>> arrived at Bell Labs, I was a little taken aback by the change of culture
>> in writing, dressing, and entertainment compared to my years as a grad
>> student in California. I mean, I fit in - I subscribed to the New Yorker -
>> but I felt like a bum in a room full of high society folk.
>>
>> That feeling never really left.
>>
>> -rob
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 6:35 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong
>>> group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with
>>> the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was
>>> formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.
>>>
>>

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
@ 2022-01-11 20:57         ` Jon Steinhart
  2022-01-11 22:17         ` John P. Linderman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Jon Steinhart @ 2022-01-11 20:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

Rob Pike writes:
> Similar. Everyone at Bell Labs was so *proper*.  (Except Ken, of course.
> Ken is *sui generis*, and a Californian).
>
> I'm sure it wasn't really me, but it felt like I was the first person to
> utter a curse word in the Unix room.

That might be a technicality.  I discovered the Unix room late one night
when blood sugar was running low so I hit the candy machines on the sixth
floor of building 2.  While I was getting my snack, I heard a robotic
voice coming from down the hall saying "fuck fuck fuck fuck".  I had to
investigate.  Found a small door with a frosted glass window that had an
8.5x11 piece of paper taped to in on which was spelled out the word UNIX
in block letters in I believe black electrical tape.  Opened the door to
discover that a Votrax had been acquired and that Ken and Dennis were
teaching it to swear.  So they must have at least known those words.

On another technicality, I bicycled to the labs every day, naturally uphill
in both directions.  Not possible to avoid sweating when pushing up Glenside
Road.  And no showers available; those were for the security guards only.
Turned out that dress code was up to supervisors, and Joe Condon was fine
with me wearing shorts to work.  I often got glared at when walking down the
hall and had to explain myself to the "proper" folks.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
  2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
@ 2022-01-11 22:14       ` Theodore Ts'o
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Theodore Ts'o @ 2022-01-11 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: George Michaelson; +Cc: TUHS main list

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 06:25:52AM +1000, George Michaelson wrote:
> Bit of this in ietf too. Inner cohort of vint and similar background wear
> three piece suits.
> 
> Three: vest not optional.
> 
> A west coast mob wear tie-dye tees.

I can remember plenty of east coast IETF'ers (including for example,
Jeff Schiller, the Security Area Director, who was based out of MIT
and grew up in New York) sporting hot pick "Nerds in Paradise"
T-shirts commerating the 15th IETF meeting held in Honolulu.  Vint was
very much the exception with his three-piece suit.  I can't think of
anyone else who would even wear a tie.

       	    	      	   	- Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-11 20:57         ` Jon Steinhart
@ 2022-01-11 22:17         ` John P. Linderman
  2022-01-11 22:41           ` Andrew Hume
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: John P. Linderman @ 2022-01-11 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:45 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

Similar. Everyone at Bell Labs was so *proper*.  (Except Ken, of course.
> Ken is *sui generis*, and a Californian).
>

Perhaps (probably maybe) I misunderstand. There was nothing "proper" about
the Peter face on the water tower, or lock-picking a boot to move it to a
patrol car, of Scott Knaur wandering the halls in a Darth Vader costume, or
Jellicat wearing a Cats costume, or a thousand other examples. There was a
lot of playfulness in the Labs (at least in the early days), and I think it
was wonderful.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 22:17         ` John P. Linderman
@ 2022-01-11 22:41           ` Andrew Hume
  2022-01-12  0:15             ` Rob Pike
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Hume @ 2022-01-11 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John P. Linderman; +Cc: TUHS main list

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i would add the general atmosphere of the Unix room, especially the very heavy mobile hung from
the ceiling for a while (until someone noticed the cable supporting it was visibly stretching).

also the bowling alley (the corridor that rob, ken, denis, doug and my offices were on) — the pins
were under the printer table at the end. i also recall the time the bowling ball got away from the
Unix room rolling down the main corridor towards a group of visitors led by peter weinberger.
luckily, dave presotto grabbed the ball before anyone got hurt (but it was close).

i would also mention labscam; its not often we see a prank involving rob pike, Penn and a Noble Prize winner.

> On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:17 PM, John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:45 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com <mailto:robpike@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Similar. Everyone at Bell Labs was so proper.  (Except Ken, of course. Ken is sui generis, and a Californian).
> 
> Perhaps (probably maybe) I misunderstand. There was nothing "proper" about the Peter face on the water tower, or lock-picking a boot to move it to a patrol car, of Scott Knaur wandering the halls in a Darth Vader costume, or Jellicat wearing a Cats costume, or a thousand other examples. There was a lot of playfulness in the Labs (at least in the early days), and I think it was wonderful. 


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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 22:41           ` Andrew Hume
@ 2022-01-12  0:15             ` Rob Pike
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2022-01-12  0:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Hume; +Cc: TUHS main list

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Yes, but most, if not all of things were after I arrived, among the first
of a brace of fresh hot blood imported to grow 127. Things definitely felt
looser by the mid-80s.

Look, I'm not complaining. I absolutely loved working in the CS research
group. But culturally, at least upon my arrival, I felt like a fish out of
water.

-rob


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 9:42 AM Andrew Hume <andrew@humeweb.com> wrote:

> i would add the general atmosphere of the Unix room, especially the very
> heavy mobile hung from
> the ceiling for a while (until someone noticed the cable supporting it was
> visibly stretching).
>
> also the bowling alley (the corridor that rob, ken, denis, doug and my
> offices were on) — the pins
> were under the printer table at the end. i also recall the time the
> bowling ball got away from the
> Unix room rolling down the main corridor towards a group of visitors led
> by peter weinberger.
> luckily, dave presotto grabbed the ball before anyone got hurt (but it was
> close).
>
> i would also mention labscam; its not often we see a prank involving rob
> pike, Penn and a Noble Prize winner.
>
> On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:17 PM, John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:45 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Similar. Everyone at Bell Labs was so *proper*.  (Except Ken, of course.
>> Ken is *sui generis*, and a Californian).
>>
>
> Perhaps (probably maybe) I misunderstand. There was nothing "proper" about
> the Peter face on the water tower, or lock-picking a boot to move it to a
> patrol car, of Scott Knaur wandering the halls in a Darth Vader costume, or
> Jellicat wearing a Cats costume, or a thousand other examples. There was a
> lot of playfulness in the Labs (at least in the early days), and I think it
> was wonderful.
>
>
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
  2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
@ 2022-01-12 23:15   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2022-01-13  1:34     ` Adam Thornton
  2022-01-13 15:37   ` Dan Cross
  2022-01-13 16:32   ` Bakul Shah
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2022-01-12 23:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Tuesday, 11 January 2022 at 14:34:16 -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>
> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original
> Wollongong group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not
> to be confused with the Labs port to the 8/32).

To be fair, in the case of Australia almost everybody is on the east
coast, though we have had our share of FreeBSD core team members from
the "west coast" (which is really only Perth).

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-12 23:15   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2022-01-13  1:34     ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2022-01-13  1:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey, Computer Old Farts Followers

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Moving to COFF, but Brian Dear's "The Friendly Orange Glow", about Plato,
talks a lot about some of the cool stuff happening in the middle of the
country.
https://www.amazon.com/Friendly-Orange-Glow-Untold-Cyberculture/dp/1101973633/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

And later, of course, NCSA Mosaic.


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:15 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 11 January 2022 at 14:34:16 -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
> >
> > We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original
> > Wollongong group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not
> > to be confused with the Labs port to the 8/32).
>
> To be fair, in the case of Australia almost everybody is on the east
> coast, though we have had our share of FreeBSD core team members from
> the "west coast" (which is really only Perth).
>
> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php
>

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
  2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-12 23:15   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2022-01-13 15:37   ` Dan Cross
  2022-01-13 16:32   ` Bakul Shah
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-01-13 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:34 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts.
>>
>>
> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong
> group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with
> the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was
> formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.
>

Oh certainly. I didn't mean for my list of locations other than Berkeley
and Murray Hill to be exhaustive, nor to disregard the important work done
elsewhere (including of course Australia).

        - Dan C.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
  2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
@ 2022-01-13 15:44     ` Dan Cross
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-01-13 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:18 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see a stylistic connection between the style of writing of the manuals
> and the New York journalism, especially that of the New Yorker.
>

Oh that's really interesting; as a New Yorker who subscribes to the New
Yorker, this makes so much sense and is certainly more sensible than my
hypothesized connection with Warhol and the Factory.

        - Dan C.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2022-01-13 15:37   ` Dan Cross
@ 2022-01-13 16:32   ` Bakul Shah
  2022-01-13 16:48     ` Richard Salz
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2022-01-13 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:34 AM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:37 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com <mailto:crossd@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> It seems like Unix is largely a child of the coasts. 
> 
> We can add the eastern coast of Australia, where the original Wollongong group made the first V6 port to the Interdata 7/32 (not to be confused with the Labs port to the 8/32). The Western U.S. company of the same name was formed to sell it, but I don't know if any of the Ozites moved to Palo Alto.

This port to Interdata 7/32 was done by Richard Miller @ the University of Wollongong. AFAIK he is a Canadian (now living in the UK). No idea if any Canadian coastal cultures were involved! Much later he also did the plan9 port to the first RaspberryPi & subsequent models. His coding style is certainly quite minimal.

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* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-13 16:32   ` Bakul Shah
@ 2022-01-13 16:48     ` Richard Salz
  2022-01-13 17:20       ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2022-01-13 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

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What about Jim Culp and IIASA? Didn't he do the first BSD job control
stuff?  What else did they provide?

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-13 16:48     ` Richard Salz
@ 2022-01-13 17:20       ` Bakul Shah
  2022-01-13 19:56         ` John Cowan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2022-01-13 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Salz; +Cc: TUHS main list

On Jan 13, 2022, at 8:48 AM, Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What about Jim Culp and IIASA? Didn't he do the first BSD job control stuff?  What else did they provide?

Indeed he did. IIASA is in landlocked Austria! I read about this a very long time ago so don't recall if there was anything else as significant. ^Z was very useful when we didn't have a graphics display and multiple windows. Even now I have a few ^Z'ed processes lying about!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC.
  2022-01-13 17:20       ` Bakul Shah
@ 2022-01-13 19:56         ` John Cowan
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2022-01-13 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 12:20 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:


> Even now I have a few ^Z'ed processes lying about!


So do I.  The mysql client process is one I need occasionally and I don't
want to dedicate another tab to it, but it's a pain in the ass to log in
every time I do need it.  So I keep it in the background of my "general
purposes" tab, and fg it whenever I need it.  The trick is to remember to
type ^Z instead of ^D when I'm finished.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC
@ 2022-01-12  3:38 Douglas McIlroy
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Douglas McIlroy @ 2022-01-12  3:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

> most, if not all of these things were after I arrived.

That may indicate the youth of the narrator more than  a lightening of
the culture. Some practical jokes and counter-culture customs from an
earlier day:

When I joined the Labs, everyone talked about the escapades of Claude
Shannon and Dave Hagelbarger--unicycle, outguessing machines, the
finger-on-the-switch box, etc.

When John Kelly became a department head he refused to have his office
carpeted. That would have kept him from stubbing out cigarettes on the
floor.

Bill Baker may have worn a coat and tie, but he kept a jalopy in his
VP parking space. Another employee had a rusty vehicle with weeds
growing out of the fenders.

As early as 1960 BESYS began appending fortune cookies to every
printout. The counter where printouts were delivered got messed up by
people pawing around to see others' fortunes.

One day the audio monitor on the low bit of the 7090 accumulator
stopped producing white noise (with an occasional screech for an
infinite loop) and intoned in aTexas drawl, "Help, I'm caught in a
loop. Help. I'm caught in a loop. Help  ..."

A pixelated nude mural appeared in Ed David's office. (Maybe this no
longer counts as a prank. It is now regarded as a foundational event
in computer art.)

Ed Gilbert had a four-drawer filing cabinet labeled integers,
rationals, reals, and balloon. The latter held the tattered remains of
lunchtime hot-air experiments. He also had a chalkboard globe with a
world map on it. It sometimes took several spins before a visitor
realized that you really shouldn't be able to see all the continents
at once--the map appeared twice around the circumference of the globe.

CS had a Gilbert-and-Sullivan duo, Mike Lesk and Peter Neumann, who
produced original entertainment for department parties.

Doug

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-13 19:57 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-01-11 18:36 [TUHS] Coastal cultures, collaboration, creativity and Sun vs DEC Dan Cross
2022-01-11 18:45 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 18:50 ` John Floren
2022-01-11 19:34 ` John Cowan
2022-01-11 20:17   ` Rob Pike
2022-01-11 20:25     ` George Michaelson
2022-01-11 20:44       ` Rob Pike
2022-01-11 20:57         ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 22:17         ` John P. Linderman
2022-01-11 22:41           ` Andrew Hume
2022-01-12  0:15             ` Rob Pike
2022-01-11 22:14       ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-01-13 15:44     ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 23:15   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-13  1:34     ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-13 15:37   ` Dan Cross
2022-01-13 16:32   ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-13 16:48     ` Richard Salz
2022-01-13 17:20       ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-13 19:56         ` John Cowan
2022-01-12  3:38 Douglas McIlroy

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