From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 8cfe608f for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 20:53:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 964289B794; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 06:53:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A3993D71; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 06:53:39 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="eBpuuORq"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1BA4E93D71; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 06:53:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f196.google.com (mail-qk1-f196.google.com [209.85.222.196]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9042993D59 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 06:53:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f196.google.com with SMTP id h15so4307584qka.13 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YzqYGsxo67/QjX6bm2mhmqQqrrZ/eMB3Y7QZsD2VAVk=; b=eBpuuORqLG33+XyN6cprab8gRhok4LlA0fuc8Il5tsLN8a6jkSW+fL9m7CkQhpivk5 O2YficxbC8Em17PVcWWkh7zOksJK1XSkziguOwj0877YTmiFL5F5mY5spa6SvhUIdPXU Bj+cnC6YDA6STI/0xxSjHjytMTE36TAA9NG5vVXop1MRzSN5F2w7f6A7mGJtNZXsXIyI 8rdorv8EzlkFysfPRMioePlDQUul6nwAdwyLNmqXBlLnSWxT3/yGfBetm6gV83KXAq6R H3o2GzZ2fUlsFrVWUG/WdbbYazOZw9DOVpY3iLIQbz1McYmh46+y3xJTV2VjlJ1P6trS WXeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YzqYGsxo67/QjX6bm2mhmqQqrrZ/eMB3Y7QZsD2VAVk=; b=rLOeqqBpzBeknz/Ui0N49uMNqH9JsqTjpPK3sNjbAbMdWtWQltBM8prQTYMLYwPr1T 3NW63CA83w3dA+I9svsxK/b4Pi4oxRgLtpSJfOLeJ4TenHbWm9xleK3Lb/ZqbtsO+8UX hynmci7cUqoPC6xAsIifKuqTWFhiGYxen7etKFULNyo0ZZXohTLlajmS1fagRq6+bYML whuO3F5fif24yXb9qBZgZH48jbxTLGUjXuzLjpxzdgnaP03VAX/2cXZBJQ7yXGHrwgwf k+vW1a40MqT7D9ROX/qXueD9Ce2jvNCT0i+exD2np4pyJirp2SUb6QcOuse5b8yk6ESc 0KvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVS0BnGApigU6J3a1gnXqdJAHHuRRLS6NKkXRdeGmGq2UxK67Kt BzJ7iZhEDM6/QPujvO4pzKNfgKXPd2BFHplianM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx0CX9bBLNz0oQrfk8TkFQ0YxFbJt0Kynhx1hIQKoji216GmyKAeBBANW37EjgxvPpeJpPHszylSUMshCP69L4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:7dc2:: with SMTP id y185mr3917823qkc.380.1574369616644; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 12:53:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <397f861b-8684-0938-250c-b929e7710000@case.edu> In-Reply-To: <397f861b-8684-0938-250c-b929e7710000@case.edu> From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 15:53:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: Chester Ramey Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bece930597e17d26" Subject: Re: [TUHS] AOS and IBM/RT [Re: Amdahl UTS, AIX/370, AIX/ESA X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000bece930597e17d26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:16 AM Chet Ramey wrote: > On 11/21/19 9:19 AM, Dan Cross wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 8:07 AM Brad Spencer > > wrote: > > > > For a brief time a long time ago, I used a 4.3BSD based Mt. Xinu, > MACH > > microkernel, OS on the IBM-RT as an alternative to AOS. Ran well > > enough, but was disk and memory constrained. We had source to much > of > > the system (or perhaps all of it, don't remember), but I seem to > recall > > that compiling it was a big pain. Something like you had to use a > > specific compiler (perhaps referred to as High C?? hc command > perhaps) > > to compile some of the source. gcc had a backend for the ROMP > > processor, but it had a hard time making usable binaries. I think > that > > some variation of pcc was the usual compiler. I remember it being > > pretty stock 4.3BSD with NFS and minus YP/NIS. We used them mostly > as X > > terminal workstations. > > > > > > "High C" (or perhaps "Hi C"? It's been a while...) was the name of the > > system compiler on AOS; I thought it was installed as `cc`. > > "High C", and it was installed as cc and hc. > Yeah, that matches my (vague) recollection as well. > Some RT enthusiasts kept those machines running well beyond their prime. > > Why? I'm not entirely sure; as you say, they were memory and disk > > constrained. They were also very slow. > > I had one running in my basement into the late 90s, with my own self- > maintained kernel. I did a considerable portion of the bash-2.0 > development on that box, and my wife wrote all of her doctoral thesis on > it (using a troff macro package I wrote to do APA style formatting). It > didn't make the cut when I moved from that house. Why did I have it? > Because it was free, and it did what I needed. > We kept a couple of them running through the mid- to late-90s as well. By that time, however, it seemed like Linux and the BSDs on PCs had greatly eclipsed whatever was possible performance or software-wise on the aging RTs, which were also starting to fail in odd ways. But until that point, they were free and ran Unix, and for a long time that was kind of a special thing. We ended up replacing a 6150 with a 486 running FreeBSD and life was pretty good, though. The spiritual descendent of that (those) machine(s) now runs OpenBSD on a VPS somewhere. A while back, I found some old NIS data files (in ndbm format, of course) that we'd preserved from some ancient backup; I was able to get the ndbm library from an old BSD distribution and compile it and extract the data, which was kind of fun. - Dan C. --000000000000bece930597e17d26 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:16 AM Chet Ram= ey <chet.ramey@case.edu> w= rote:
On 11/21/19 9:19 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 8:07 AM Brad Spencer <brad@anduin.eldar.org
> <mailto:= brad@anduin.eldar.org>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For a brief time a long time ago, I used a 4.3BSD b= ased Mt. Xinu, MACH
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0microkernel, OS on the IBM-RT as an alternative to = AOS.=C2=A0 Ran well
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0enough, but was disk and memory constrained.=C2=A0 = We had source to much of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the system (or perhaps all of it, don't remembe= r), but I seem to recall
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that compiling it was a big pain.=C2=A0 Something l= ike you had to use a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specific compiler (perhaps referred to as High C??= =C2=A0 hc command perhaps)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to compile some of the source.=C2=A0 gcc had a back= end for the ROMP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0processor, but it had a hard time making usable bin= aries.=C2=A0 I think that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some variation of pcc was the usual compiler.=C2=A0= I remember it being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pretty stock 4.3BSD with NFS and minus YP/NIS.=C2= =A0 We used them mostly as X
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0terminal workstations.
>
>
> "High C" (or perhaps "Hi C"? It's been a while= ...) was the name of the
> system compiler on AOS; I thought it was installed as `cc`.

"High C", and it was installed as cc and hc.

Yeah, that matches my (vague) recollection as well.

> Some RT enthusiasts kept those machines running well beyond their prim= e.
> Why? I'm not entirely sure; as you say, they were memory and disk =
> constrained. They were also very slow.

I had one running in my basement into the late 90s, with my own self-
maintained kernel. I did a considerable portion of the bash-2.0
development on that box, and my wife wrote all of her doctoral thesis on it (using a troff macro package I wrote to do APA style formatting). It didn't make the cut when I moved from that house. Why did I have it? Because it was free, and it did what I needed.

We kept a couple of them running through the mid- to late-90s as we= ll. By that time, however, it seemed like Linux and the BSDs on PCs had gre= atly eclipsed whatever was possible performance or software-wise on the agi= ng RTs, which were also starting to fail in odd ways. But until that point,= they were free and ran Unix, and for a long time that was kind of a specia= l thing. We ended up replacing a 6150 with a 486 running FreeBSD and life w= as pretty good, though.

The spiritual descendent o= f that (those) machine(s) now runs OpenBSD on a VPS somewhere. A while back= , I found some old NIS data files (in ndbm format, of course) that we'd= preserved from some ancient backup; I was able to get the ndbm library fro= m an old BSD distribution and compile it and extract the data, which was ki= nd of fun.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

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