From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id cae00ace for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 02:19:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 85C31A1F39; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 12:19:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9FBA1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 12:18:55 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="eAsODKBN"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1CD19A1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 12:18:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f177.google.com (mail-lj1-f177.google.com [209.85.208.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 205C5A1C50 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 12:18:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f177.google.com with SMTP id x85-v6so35400247ljb.2 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:18:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vCe8VL3WCXZIXjSHBCaEoK/8WkekXcbbXzRLyAvy+B8=; b=eAsODKBNw/nRThtjmP8HkVRiuuhG6SVzEtndABVLOkZhh/MUn0ndhn86c5Ud9DXGvA y6uWn7e1vlYQQxAmSnSAZdx+6DkTmkoEKZ+uVXfCyP7Cbrediug/AnzouFgSG0Rm/b1M g747uDmIdpPnQVCWLkfy8C9oZY8AJBhSROX62ZhRBL+GJWzOmwu5sXEYkmshs/KxgXuo NjtFat6k2VZzg71wHy+uC7AXX6GqyYILCVVvdVgA7lMrEAQM8vO425GR4NxVAHiwzlOH bOBclLe40bKxyYa4O7n6PRdZEop4Z/HMLrPNyFJC0P1vPlQ3RVIrfcraIGwo2HCFTqbF +G2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vCe8VL3WCXZIXjSHBCaEoK/8WkekXcbbXzRLyAvy+B8=; b=gHiT6KZGFZzQ6KE+u0+Iw+is6lBaGFdRPrzJhIo/KYEDMP9QlHufHQND4k0dHFk+Jr k2obE5fvKG5jX8dAFtUqMBlexP+xz7VONoSckb0f6Zwz5pLYjFEStpr64SROsJnjNE6I Aj4ea+Dcm/EYUmNApLiDRtLMb3w1nIxLrNk81+ba2Nxf9Jg1QMk+p7Tqs0s5Su0J2vfz 3XVW7YjddJ4IEISy8/4eaMf2c1JUFwE2U/TdjxsKCMyokRvrlmyoAF0XsMqc2kUmX4AD 2HKKuLs+L8BLjYgkLV3EgkQlfyES8n2stzhBBuBrBdIDiA1VjW4ekWe1tHxv3FRKnVy+ i1iA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeZalVnQjje5prGbKwj1WViWz+zhG440YxcxSHJSnCvZpJAQqES YKiXDW1zwUnyLpUh2Uvi+uAUeVDL89R5kloXhvn+Ew== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7eENn/Dc/xjAXfQDVfVjRAsvcBY/9nXEmSYc147y7nWXFb7JL7tgiH/ZqxPkTzS4QPNNWb3HZyw8f3kTTBbJU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c7:: with SMTP id 190-v6mr24252372ljj.120.1546741131095; Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:18:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201901050226.x052QigU089781@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <22BA2F17-310F-4396-A35A-23E2D1130018@ronnatalie.com> <20190105153133.GA24497@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: "A. P. Garcia" Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 21:18:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Chris Hanson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000adb3e3057ec0bba0" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000adb3e3057ec0bba0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 8:50 PM Chris Hanson On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:01 AM, A. P. Garcia > wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 10:39 AM Larry McVoy >> +1. RMS always talked big but the real work was done by other people. >> GCC was Tiemann at Sun and then at Cygnus, groff was James Clark, >> etc. I think RMS hacked on emacs but not much else. >> > > I'm going to refrain from either praising or disparaging the man. I think > the book Hackers by Steven Levy does a good job of describing him and how > the idea for the GNU project came about. > > > Dan Weinreb, who was in charge of Symbolics at the time, strongly dispute= d > the RMS (and =E2=80=9CHackers=E2=80=9D) story of GNU=E2=80=99s inspiratio= n from what Symbolics =E2=80=9Cdid > to=E2=80=9D the AI Lab. > > By Weinreb=E2=80=99s account, Symbolics hired relatively few people away = from the > Lab, and RMS wasn=E2=80=99t simply rewriting Symbolics=E2=80=99 enhancem= ents (which were > shared with the Lab, and Symbolics=E2=80=99 customers of course) for the = MIT and > LMI environments, he was actually caught copying their code directly. > A google search turned up a speech by rms that I hadn=CB=8Bt previously see= n, as well as Weinreb=CB=8Bs rebuttal: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.en.html http://ergoemacs.org/misc/Daniel_Weinreb_rebuttal_to_rms.html --000000000000adb3e3057ec0bba0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 8:50 PM Chris Hanson <cmhanson@esc= hatologist.net wrote:
On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:01 AM, A. P. Garcia <a= .phillip.garcia@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 5= , 2019, 10:39 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com wrote:
+1.=C2=A0 RMS always talked= big but the real work was done by other people.
GCC was Tiemann at Sun and then at Cygnus, groff was James Clark,
etc.=C2=A0 I think RMS hacked on emacs but not much else.
<= /div>

I'm going to r= efrain from either praising or disparaging the man. I think the book Hacker= s by Steven Levy does a good job of describing him and how the idea for the= GNU project came about.

= Dan Weinreb, who was in charge of Symbolics at the time, strongly disputed = the RMS (and =E2=80=9CHackers=E2=80=9D) story of GNU=E2=80=99s inspiration = from what Symbolics =E2=80=9Cdid to=E2=80=9D the AI Lab.

By Weinreb=E2=80=99s account, Symbolics hired relatively few people = away from the Lab, and =C2=A0RMS wasn=E2=80=99t simply rewriting Symbolics= =E2=80=99 enhancements (which were shared with the Lab, and Symbolics=E2=80= =99 customers of course) for the MIT and LMI environments, he was actually = caught copying their code directly.

A google search turned up a speech by= rms that I hadn=CB=8Bt previously seen, as well as Weinreb=CB=8Bs rebuttal= :


=

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