From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26663 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2021 15:56:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 25 Jan 2021 15:56:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 556E99C79F; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:56:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FCB9C63D; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:55:51 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="mSQ3bJLp"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C59649C63D; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:55:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f182.google.com (mail-lj1-f182.google.com [209.85.208.182]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0BFF9C5FD for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:55:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f182.google.com with SMTP id l12so13339170ljc.3 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 07:55:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LZBe4K5GmHjZ1oxeNQL9jSoG+WVKBl0pP0WlQUg8hew=; b=mSQ3bJLpbGjMWwXnoBtm5NCmAneSEA5MvXhdRgVMPmDWMMam+6OsyjVXySDLtFSk+L uXvA97/fv7yCW3MZuGYggh+Ig7g9lfQMm8BQGU1PAFm7077CygHZel7LHf6aIpkJLZIM VKexpTfUcwiCEBlWgDjQ5u/ZHjJdYoNk1DUqoVnm/L/O6VkpzGAZo6KvuP1R/Eppgc7f JhukT97VIlKuFs074Qttn1GiwC9XaMgGL2tlfygrI5G4+Es44K3x6O4LUqWwFjb45sZu UJc7cnG6eLY7Piyzi/9bI4NaS4tcvtmnTG3WW+sCmJynDyBRV8Sp+kRhpJ3L1FibhALY /pwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LZBe4K5GmHjZ1oxeNQL9jSoG+WVKBl0pP0WlQUg8hew=; b=FC6x6qx5uWfpwk6tQ1DQQP3LUiV7uk1sFj93pkq1OeT+OMPkgg6wSGgJA5ua8DnnEW hjL0hP5fKc0WjIpav2zKYJtdvTo8cqK6OMygxzHgN8Zji+LeNOpqVLQ+Bm6a3QQZbmdc pQ+wmTajdzHYiY/MVv1cCaQMk5EMNlRnowCbu4zEevJh8/YOXqZvFJ0bXAIoPqFSU4Hk S2D8TYPibH2wnT6GgoxV48n/Xljhus1NszUNJUVPPxcShbG8VnjkOTBxKsu7BpJe51op qRXHKHEPSE0bxQ+/SPq1SNco8swUQUTbWXvAH2ZkMQqoYO/QhXeioD6qXlnlwTUxm87d cv1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L/YTRAfG1f4HQ7SBcu+/NqupcxLsMDIkeZg4bn1n3lMZwHBRX 8CmDAEd69sNW5CIGJgWEKO+8o3RNtqH1HjWn4Y5H4bgKolw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/p1sCWxaDCyrMXLq/jQ3a4c0k2K3UZsLBJpwQePSkGbYjH2nzPHiyHZR3DwC1XOOhm0RogPTUsm8L5rb3PGA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9d90:: with SMTP id c16mr491861ljj.210.1611590146252; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 07:55:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210124183653.GD21030@mcvoy.com> <202101242045.10OKjDvA964774@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210124211100.GI21030@mcvoy.com> <202101242114.10OLEYGk966708@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210124212525.GJ21030@mcvoy.com> <202101242333.10ONXjcI974038@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202101250021.10P0L3Z2976588@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <6557f782-ecb1-6476-1eda-e23f30f9bbea@bitsavers.org> In-Reply-To: <6557f782-ecb1-6476-1eda-e23f30f9bbea@bitsavers.org> From: Richard Salz Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:55:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000030e6ae05b9bb9299" Subject: Re: [TUHS] tangential unix question: whatever happened to NeWS? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000030e6ae05b9bb9299 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A couple of updates. At a Usenix (Portland?) dmr had a keynote and he interviewed himself.Q: "What do you think of X?" A: "Sometimes when you fill a vacuum it still sucks." Maybe Rob said it earlier, but that was the first time I heard it publically. Osterhout's Tk was beyond amazing. I was at OSF and gave several demo's (the "windowing ksh" was also available). The idea that you could "send" to another GUI program and add buttons, etc., instantaneously! John had already implemented the Motif look and feel (from the spec), mostly, and was willing to do anything if OSF would take it and call it Motif. The Motif leads (I was in DCE) weren't interested, although maybe they'd put it on the "extra's" tape at the end. This was circa 1992. I once told this story to some Microsoft PM's, and they agreed it would have completely killed Visual Basic. Ah well. Apollo's had two 68K processors, the second one watched for page faults and patched things up since it wasn't until 68020 that the faulting stuff worked properly. The Apollo source control team left after HP and formed Clearcase. DCE RPC was based on Apollo NCS which was a very elegant RPC system built on UDP. It had no XDR because it was "reader makes it right" and datatypes were tagged. I don't recall details of the tagging. Digital added TCP transport. Microsoft took the DCE RPC spec (we had a name for them, I forget what it was) and used it to implement DCOM's RPC. There's an IETF draft, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-brown-dcom-v1-spec-01, but it never progressed beyond that. Hope this is interesting to some. --00000000000030e6ae05b9bb9299 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A couple of updates.

At a Us= enix (Portland?) dmr had a keynote and he interviewed himself.Q: "What= do you think of X?" A: "Sometimes when you fill a vacuum it stil= l sucks."=C2=A0 Maybe Rob said it earlier, but that was the first time= I heard it publically.

Osterhout's Tk was bey= ond amazing. I was at OSF and gave several demo's (the "windowing = ksh" was also available).=C2=A0 The idea that you could "send&quo= t; to another GUI program and add buttons, etc., instantaneously! John had = already implemented the Motif look and feel (from the spec), mostly, and wa= s willing to do anything if OSF would take it and call it Motif. The Motif = leads (I was in DCE) weren't interested, although maybe they'd put = it on the "extra's" tape at the end. This was circa 1992. I o= nce told this story to some Microsoft PM's, and they agreed it would ha= ve completely killed Visual Basic.=C2=A0 Ah well.

= Apollo's had two 68K processors, the second one watched for page faults= and patched things up since it wasn't until 68020 that the faulting st= uff worked properly. The Apollo source control team left after HP and forme= d Clearcase.

DCE RPC was based on Apollo NCS w= hich was a very elegant RPC system built on UDP. It had no XDR because it w= as "reader makes it right" and datatypes were tagged. I don't= recall details of the tagging. Digital added TCP transport. Microsoft took= the DCE RPC spec (we had a name for them, I forget what it was) and used i= t to implement DCOM's RPC.=C2=A0 There's an IETF draft, https://tools.ietf= .org/html/draft-brown-dcom-v1-spec-01, but it never progressed beyond t= hat.

Hope this is interesting to some.
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