From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25851 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2021 04:09:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Jul 2021 04:09:54 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B867E9CA3F; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 14:09:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45E69C9F1; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 14:09:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ssRwEymN"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D6FFB9C9F1; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 14:09:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f41.google.com (mail-ua1-f41.google.com [209.85.222.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C350C9C9F0 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 14:09:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q3so6302108uao.0 for ; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 21:09:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GcAPvztO1pPBVwRI3Efr0agho8ZQg2eBY6cLHvRolv4=; b=ssRwEymNjdJP+QvtmcHBVoCKAIgebiNLAPcGrBuvueeLUf+X017k9VqiNOmwtgc5Ni vNhSdsaEDhAmD7C0i98CnCZKfY9PoWdLRkyITjyHYm/rPNt7rILoD0tgTqH66moxD8FV NqsTkyHJ9QBEMYdmSublltEXYAkwTEvyFa6OR8wzWhATZSvLmeNezfwc7QCKpXzsrEXJ vySkD3qA50MlQpfcCij8fMbb4Skx9nUOxh5QqkbSRtWuCRirdp828buALfeaKw5RtKmb 0pL6Ngaud7A6HE/BMcjPWz/DaRqBOAvyX+oQ92vTIoaexV8PqBlON0+cc70XqRSFK3ql Olag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GcAPvztO1pPBVwRI3Efr0agho8ZQg2eBY6cLHvRolv4=; b=a6K98Q5GOqkjbMSqyKHK+AcvQgmZg4a7Ixcg85HzgCS/uy4oJjqLQYtE2kUubWXWWj 7FvhMQ/FE6I9ov2SQOWUoVmKAHMZadkyjPUtb6T3TC/O84LtHBUq4tJKYbtO2HlMa6Xf O73ZSTpzB+SBkFSrX+D0qs43Xh1wyJXWnBE/JlcQa3EkLc51GgaJNUI4qXg9iXsQMUU2 SuEqeoyJx4vFKevhr4Ti4TldP748No0takc2QiflQL24/4LjC0lkCEKnsGC5nwG8B8x8 hF4sSd29K6gb1mpw5BDOn8KalIKg/hPMQXw0RVhshV12HzthNYwF45pe2yyw1X60yzHi RCLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530dwoWB1lksyrixIzcXiHnMqG0SXqBTtD49+qrsEa/l6Wl12jTJ F58fsC9MivBrE0l7tju0PV/4XadV/WrErwpAjimgCQ5A X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxr8cIkW07+x9EkuwFKCV6q5/RoI3sm9tTK9OvtPIpH2gqMNkePxkG5t8wmKzTcL6LySE1ThWJaRlrWuP6YEfo= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:42a6:: with SMTP id j35mr5748227uaj.129.1625458143807; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 21:09:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210702213648.GW817@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dan Stromberg Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 21:08:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Derek Fawcus Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000424c4a05c65877ff" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Is C obsolete? (was Re: [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000424c4a05c65877ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 4:33 PM Derek Fawcus < dfawcus+lists-tuhs@employees.org> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 03, 2021 at 05:49:57PM +0200, Andy Kosela wrote: > > They also think that C is obsolete > > I'd not say it is obsolete, but despite it having been my main language > for the > last 30 years, these days I would be inclined to restrict the range of new > tasks > I'd use it for. > Me too - I write far fewer things in C today than I once did. Last time I used C, it was for something that needed mlockall() and very minimalist OS dependencies. And the client was in Python - only the server was in C. I think Rust is probably the better language, even though Go is ahead of it in the Tiobe language popularity rankings. Go is more like what most people are accustomed to, but Rust is a genuine advancement in language design that justifies "fighting the borrow checker". On the other hand, I did a little comparison of Rust md5 (I know, it's broken) implementations, and found them surprisingly slow. Slower than CPython - though CPython is just linking to OpenSSL, and OpenSSL is probably using hand-coded assembler, or at least highly optimized C. --000000000000424c4a05c65877ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 4:33 PM Derek Fawc= us <dfawcus+lists-= tuhs@employees.org> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 03, 2021 at 05:49:57PM +0200, Andy Kosela wro= te:
> They also think that C is obsolete

I'd not say it is obsolete, but despite it having been my main language= for the
last 30 years, these days I would be inclined to restrict the range of new = tasks
I'd use it for.
Me too - I write far fewer things = in C today than I once did.=C2=A0 Last time I used C, it was for something = that needed mlockall() and very minimalist OS dependencies.=C2=A0 And the c= lient was in Python - only the server was in C.

I think Rust is probably the better language, even though Go is ahead of = it in the Tiobe language popularity rankings.=C2=A0 Go is more like what mo= st people are accustomed to, but Rust is a genuine advancement in language = design that justifies "fighting the borrow checker".
On the other hand, I did a little comparison of Rust md5 (I kn= ow, it's broken) implementations, and found them surprisingly slow.=C2= =A0 Slower than CPython - though CPython is just linking to OpenSSL, and Op= enSSL is probably using hand-coded assembler, or at least highly optimized = C.



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