From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11403 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2021 04:33:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Feb 2021 04:33:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DEE0E9CA89; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:33:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FF293D39; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:32:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="drYYcAU6"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EDFD993D39; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:32:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f51.google.com (mail-vs1-f51.google.com [209.85.217.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1692393D32 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:32:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f51.google.com with SMTP id j14so377151vsi.9 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 20:32:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WJFGY4ZlLxe8YdjghtWbXeqCkO/PKBE56ZLjJFu3Dvk=; b=drYYcAU60/fAQKMFh2xNdeAnlR23QvgIp3PirtiIe+nDyijP85qxySjt5n9ghFGCFb 5fL3uTl03SVx57VwXOkquxc4HVZI1E3Thw9yJL1qfJd7CZSxhTGWMYna/rgnWOpOvO+P uRmvBI6PWH8GNg6OoESUsyUP24pNg5HbjQBx7cDULDmZXs3JKTrr/SKA7UA+FDN2aujg 7M3wnSoxCZyGTcJAPV4bvyFhWCfysBCXjrB81F+AClIyVRVAWStVZBMGmuV1mdRbEAbA 6kgkq9ygHwxm114hsV/Mfz7z+i5u0AaGNm6PwU5YLcGcWqEh47ZzVaWTnwcO7kGfuoaq xeHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WJFGY4ZlLxe8YdjghtWbXeqCkO/PKBE56ZLjJFu3Dvk=; b=CWrGlgZ/J9rn4QXU6gYgthoUh+JNFpHG9L724kZBiKXU8IxMt1sFQkpM6dvSC/z12L bZ8hcsTsYMol2au4HYkHg+wAQI3JuFz+GBb1WG0XVrtGrggqOpDHi5oUdFuAFJB9Re/S ff3pvP6CcHfIhQuIxjFF0hLp8wyGZziAayrswdbQqMtPOh6isWBpcnAeNxAYeZ1WhPMc 5yrLcw2En+CX6IaQv6Zxk/uIhR86ErdgZGEkDcohTiZgPfVW15lpM9LWsFXhHVnBFzde Z3tEE7qx/LjUed3VSbjoXX9lZmBFk+lXGTTEzeTVCRxAcxGKtu522Skiqaoc19rRm5q5 JbIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5330uv3XCTIWe8wPDU1fFbtLhdBFougr5kgaIvEXGUqzJhCvgyLo xl6xfDl5e6pPqpDoniAfI0rY83KMDh8R92xMW78= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxOxEvJ1PnH7l33bBNANi5z1wJsqzc00gygLvrBd6pXQaq3772Oyw7Gkdb74xtQSNSGkjLYz+at4netvt478Ds= X-Received: by 2002:a67:eeca:: with SMTP id o10mr11118594vsp.30.1613968359229; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 20:32:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210222033217.dkqavclp22sa77ln@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20210222033217.dkqavclp22sa77ln@localhost.localdomain> From: Dan Stromberg Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 20:32:27 -0800 Message-ID: To: "G. Branden Robinson" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bb0a9c05bbe54a79" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Proliferation of options is great simplification of pipes, really? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000bb0a9c05bbe54a79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 7:33 PM G. Branden Robinson > > The groff program allows to control the whole groff system by command > > line options. This is a great simplification in comparison to the > > classical case (which uses pipes only). > > What strikes _me_ about the above is the awful Denglish in it. I fixed > this back in 2017 and the correction shipped as part of groff 1.22.4 in > December 2018. > I like the easy composability of pipes, but I don't mind some options. I don't like the huge, all-purpose applications called web browsers nearly as much. They strike me as Very un-unixy. But much can be justified by not having to get users to download a client application, and not having to get sysadmins to punch a hole through their firewalls. I'd say it's neither, and reflects (1) the limitations of the Unix > filter model, or at least the linear topology of Unix pipelines[1] > I don't think they have to be linear: http://joeyh.name/code/moreutils/ (see the unfortunately-named "pee" utility) and: https://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/mtee.html Full disclosure: I wrote mtee. --000000000000bb0a9c05bbe54a79 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 7:33 PM G. Br= anden Robinson <g.branden.robinson@gmai

> The groff program allows to control the whole groff system by command<= br> > line options. This is a great simplification in comparison to the
> classical case (which uses pipes only).

What strikes _me_ about the above is the awful Denglish in it.=C2=A0 I fixe= d
this back in 2017 and the correction shipped as part of groff 1.22.4 in
December 2018.
I like the easy composability of pipes,= but I don't mind some options.

I don't li= ke the huge, all-purpose applications called web browsers nearly as much.= =C2=A0 They strike me as Very un-unixy.=C2=A0 But much can be justified by = not having to get users to download a client application, and not having to= get sysadmins to punch a hole through their firewalls.

=
I'd say it's neither, and reflects (1) the limitations of the Unix<= br> filter model, or at least the linear topology of Unix pipelines[1]
I don't think they have to be linear:
http://joeyh.name/code/moreutils/ (see th= e unfortunately-named "pee" utility)

Full disclosure: = I wrote mtee.

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