From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21616 invoked from network); 1 May 2022 19:51:13 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 May 2022 19:51:13 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 61FA69D439; Mon, 2 May 2022 05:51:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A85B9D432; Mon, 2 May 2022 05:49:27 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="Jw1XyYpP"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 472FF9D432; Mon, 2 May 2022 05:49:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-f180.google.com (mail-vk1-f180.google.com [209.85.221.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BC1A9D431 for ; Mon, 2 May 2022 05:49:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id x9so5857959vke.4 for ; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dqtygemNzHPKHgcZlGgulXTLtSKH4weRGAFO2zQPZxw=; b=Jw1XyYpP6Lfly/dbhO+O2gswb7k9mShXE0+44OLoFAgZnjyXihYALbDzUfln8PO+JE F4rWhbnxTrG4xIJjrlP9Fnhpab/6Uq9Lgu+bzl/G0tKciL4gch4+FHYHPn+/t6cdjgrn W5SjrTg0GtqDA/sbr16AhjmOfpoPhR/imS1OcnK5LcM75fyvI7bLNNyXHUCWY6NFo0Cy JDl25KvZzX3RWyAzsDbvuiSofrMyciVl/5dqGQuatHqIngTlYLURAwmh6Y6UpqjkbPbU seicFegK68lMC/dTKm72DVtF6ebnD0oofgEBxbxUyzLCG0dqxtkzaTX2JuIXzXJxdvI+ aqXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dqtygemNzHPKHgcZlGgulXTLtSKH4weRGAFO2zQPZxw=; b=jLFN8w1pvYa536hd0g79egU/hCU9E+ai+eUDe5Sx/j5OjgOicpkFHEH0ASrBuOOjkN Sd1n8jIUotxgySg8t8/+RcQf/6GcBMVnqsb6cZh12SQ0GGwnS0EowpHXhRmm29AN7M7A yJf3GCadYW8N4j8Gz89HNJ4giG1A92PJRghl+ETUYqXTIVnO5mR7aJeoTa4OH0b/tUFk /NxPWXE1TOBG6gYMkkylASgzOt9A37JoA2fEC0lnjFjbBwhHARObE7q2LdrtlWV7VSVu qI3SATYqrnIa6y8bfsxdyj1G/jKx6NOxJ3+qY+St1pOHlKtXO1Qg/YjyTKxE4p2KWHl5 Jpeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Ok3zmVwXfHDCy9Qzd/TG4cWq57edAyd07gexN9b7fUPI/q2/t pBByFDb5iB6cPSZYtLCFKQ5spwxe7BM3eXIneS+8AqnT X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw20h4/mzCN4YJ7rbq3py4hhHzciMozpFIsgqrAzPyTtSeClwRb2o8ByXRguUjP9DTluV/BGE54coAfOvR1PiY= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:b444:0:b0:345:c6:7a02 with SMTP id d65-20020a1fb444000000b0034500c67a02mr2269980vkf.27.1651434563129; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57977CE7-DDCC-4861-BBD2-843B9B9F51C2@ronnatalie.com> <2eafe1f9-bfe5-64b1-b85d-e89e88e897e8@technologists.com> In-Reply-To: <2eafe1f9-bfe5-64b1-b85d-e89e88e897e8@technologists.com> From: Dan Stromberg Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 12:49:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Charles H Sauer (he/him)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000081565505ddf89288" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000081565505ddf89288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know where the fellow got his information, but I was told that AIX started out as AT&T code, but went through not one but two rewrites. On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Charles H Sauer (he/him) < sauer@technologists.com> wrote: > I don't recall that particular case, but AIX was definitely derived from > AT&T code. See > > https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-b= eginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/ > > HOWEVER, when the 1983 transition happened and AIX became a primary site > effort (as discussed in the cited reference), there were those new to > the effort and new to Unix that thought they could redefine behaviors > inappropriately. > > For example, I recall one person trying to enforce only one root login > at a time. Larry made it quite clear to that person that we were not > going to violate Unix tradition in that manner. > > Charlie > > On 5/1/2022 1:08 PM, ron minnich wrote: > > in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I > > understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the > > code." > > > > Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right. > > One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if > > the full path existed. oops. > > > > But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to > > handle AIX being different from just about everything else. > > > > > > On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Kenneth Goodwin > > wrote: > >> > >> I actually purchased several copies of Coherent when it was first > released and used it as printer servers for a bunch of inexpensive > Centronics based printers. lpd based server to server transfers. Took the > printing burden off the main systems. Someone came out with a network bas= ed > print spooler box (Milan ??) later on which I switched over to after MW > passed into obscurity. > >> > >> > >> On Sun, May 1, 2022, 7:46 AM Ron Natalie wrote: > >>> > >>> Mark Williams Coherent was one I worked with on the PC many years ago= . > >>> > >>>> On May 1, 2022, at 11:34, Andrew Warkentin > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> =EF=BB=BFWhat was the first "clone" functional Unix (i.e. an OS not = derived > >>>> from genetic Unix code but highly compatible with genetic Unix)? Idr= is > >>>> is the earliest such OS of which I am aware (at least AFAIK it's not= a > >>>> genetic Unix), but was it actually the first? Similarly, which was t= he > >>>> first "outer Unix-like" system (i.e. one with strong Unix influence > >>>> but significantly incompatible with functional Unix)? Off the top of > >>>> my head the earliest such system I can think of is Thoth (which > >>>> predates Idris by almost 2 years), but again I'm not sure if it was > >>>> actually the first. > >>> > > -- > voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com > fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ > Facebook/Google/Twitter > : CharlesHSauer > --00000000000081565505ddf89288 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't know wher= e the fellow got his information, but I was told that AIX started out as AT= &T code, but went through not one but two rewrites.

=
On Sun, Ma= y 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Charles H Sauer (he/him) <sauer@technologists.com> wrote:
I don't recall that particula= r case, but AIX was definitely derived from
AT&T code. See
https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the= -very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/

HOWEVER, when the 1983 transition happened and AIX became a primary site effort (as discussed in the cited reference), there were those new to
the effort and new to Unix that thought they could redefine behaviors
inappropriately.

For example, I recall one person trying to enforce only one root login
at a time. Larry made it quite clear to that person that we were not
going to violate Unix tradition in that manner.

Charlie

On 5/1/2022 1:08 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I > understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the<= br> > code."
>
> Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right.<= br> > One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if > the full path existed. oops.
>
> But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to
> handle AIX being different from just about everything else.
>
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Kenneth Goodwin
> <ke= nnethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I actually purchased several copies of Coherent when it was first = released and used it as printer servers for a bunch of inexpensive Centroni= cs based printers. lpd based server to server transfers. Took the printing = burden off the main systems. Someone came out with a network based print sp= ooler box (Milan ??) later on which I switched over to after MW passed into= obscurity.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 1, 2022, 7:46 AM Ron Natalie <ron@ronnatalie.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mark Williams Coherent was one I worked with on the PC many ye= ars ago.
>>>
>>>> On May 1, 2022, at 11:34, Andrew Warkentin <andreww591@gmail.com>= wrote:
>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB=BFWhat was the first "clone" functional U= nix (i.e. an OS not derived
>>>> from genetic Unix code but highly compatible with genetic = Unix)? Idris
>>>> is the earliest such OS of which I am aware (at least AFAI= K it's not a
>>>> genetic Unix), but was it actually the first? Similarly, w= hich was the
>>>> first "outer Unix-like" system (i.e. one with st= rong Unix influence
>>>> but significantly incompatible with functional Unix)? Off = the top of
>>>> my head the earliest such system I can think of is Thoth (= which
>>>> predates Idris by almost 2 years), but again I'm not s= ure if it was
>>>> actually the first.
>>>

--
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