From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB8527157 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 22:35:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8146429FE; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 06:35:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yw1-f171.google.com (mail-yw1-f171.google.com [209.85.128.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F09343674 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 06:35:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yw1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6515867cf33so8197717b3.1 for ; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720125317; x=1720730117; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Ovyh7FWkuomu7PZx7CIXsHAbcveZfQPoP/nCa7tVziE=; b=TIS6AcYbAc7kltXvyahffItVMfIt8mGVVPkPBzxCTH2TmltagljEul3EnqSIIvLI3k dTy2cFA46Pj9UHiBuYYy/p00aqG4zFuPCNIxpd0vVHFxVqTD2qMcCwY3ZM7A9gUwJYGo za6BchIuZ9+0uyqTCOvemABd5X2muH4r1MvYEtTQ1ZviIfHHmLncosQvgjx9TH89usHK hgBJ+vNrtbfsIJ+6IKXgiPISIHB+ZjMuqZ42v+vrK3frwZhZ0odEscleZ7TktoQoebYu i9KdQiXST2NXOiJByKWKE7g3RV7bObihH45o/N5kp1L89AZsAlD2SN02p90P8fnqF0Lq qcSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyS+mKmNBIL8tIjc1ylnYC7pMpd+uOD+9J1LDDVy4BOBLQIdg7I NsUvfAoUluaWidcUwurIMMYdzHO85ZFu0uNZqgLegv1QB63/nkamtn9QTQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF6ysQqNvGdWQs5INx3gn24kbg7nOYeH1Wnskp+6yzDF6mLCrJwd4iSBhJoCDcnMNPNeLqENA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4a07:b0:648:baba:542f with SMTP id 00721157ae682-652d34a7a30mr35040427b3.0.1720125317241; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 13:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw1-f182.google.com (mail-yw1-f182.google.com. [209.85.128.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-65036a16813sm10769187b3.45.2024.07.04.13.35.17 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Jul 2024 13:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f182.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-643f3130ed1so9181547b3.2 for ; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 13:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a81:8b43:0:b0:651:6e6f:32d2 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-652db2d0830mr25165227b3.43.1720125316789; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 13:35:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: From: Nevin Liber Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 15:34:36 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Vincenzo Nicosia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007a08e4061c71e226" Message-ID-Hash: E3AE2SZZIY5GGKL6HV657IWPKA76KWFS X-Message-ID-Hash: E3AE2SZZIY5GGKL6HV657IWPKA76KWFS X-MailFrom: nliber@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000007a08e4061c71e226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 3:24=E2=80=AFAM Vincenzo Nicosia wrote: > I agree my view is cynical. Maybe that's because I cannot find anything > romantic or poetic in "financing, regulatory constraints, product > schedules, commitments, staffing issues, and everything else that isn't > coding". Real Artists Ship: https://folklore.org/Real_Artists_Ship.html How would you have ever seen Unix had it not been for financing (engineers, even passionate ones, kind of like to eat and have a roof over their heads)? Without regulatory constraints (while not perfect), applying Unix to anything that is safety critical (lives directly on the line) would be a disaster. I can make a similar statement for every single thing in that list which isn't coding. There are something like 28 million public repositories on Github. How many of them are abandoned (no commitment)? How many of them are "beautiful" (for any reasonable definition of "beautiful" you can come up with)? Even 1%? Of those, how many of them have corporate backing (money, financing, staffing, etc.)? It's fine to romanticize passion. But it is also fiction. --=20 Nevin ":-)" Liber +1-847-691-1404 --0000000000007a08e4061c71e226 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 3:24=E2=80=AFAM Vi= ncenzo Nicosia <katolaz@freaknet= .org> wrote:
= I agree my view is cynical. Maybe that's because I cannot find anything=
romantic or poetic in "financing, regulatory constraints, product
schedules, commitments, staffing issues, and everything else that isn't=
coding".


How would you have ever = seen Unix had it not been for financing (engineers, even passionate=C2=A0on= es, kind of like to eat and have a roof over their heads)?=C2=A0 Without re= gulatory=C2=A0constraints (while not perfect), applying Unix to anything th= at is safety critical (lives directly on the line) would be a disaster.=C2= =A0 I can make a similar statement for every single thing in that list whic= h isn't coding.

There are something=C2=A0like = 28 million public=C2=A0repositories=C2=A0on Github.=C2=A0 How many of them = are abandoned (no commitment)?=C2=A0 How many of them are "beautiful&q= uot; (for any reasonable definition of "beautiful" you can come u= p with)?=C2=A0 Even 1%?=C2=A0 Of those, how many of them have corporate bac= king (money, financing, staffing, etc.)?

It's = fine to romanticize passion.=C2=A0 But it is also fiction.
--
=C2=A0Nevin ":-)" Liber=C2=A0 <mailto:nevin@eviloverlord.com> =C2=A0+1-847-691-1404
--0000000000007a08e4061c71e226--