From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25571 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2020 07:57:04 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jul 2020 07:57:04 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A0AA994F74; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:56:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA0994EBC; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:55:43 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="LcBBJPzU"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DA5C794EBC; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:55:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f194.google.com (mail-oi1-f194.google.com [209.85.167.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5601394585 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:55:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f194.google.com with SMTP id l63so8401504oih.13 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:55:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=c/uLpMqk6Eie/RGnwe+j7D5Bd0hXtj0lebvW+oZ5uB0=; b=LcBBJPzUssP+GBsb19nhpAyIzPmiW1VBMuL9Tzzmzd8p0454jmfqE82gaReJ4NvXVo 9ysDfSAypRTAsZa8DRgFLe1YBSdbVk79wEho3+YdeuMQHVC3HgBgU9CHaUZTkul8e4wp hvO+RDrrpFENCDjyh20ssWuEWnyY2owelQFTrSzxTMbUMTBMOtM6NzJ4+ukU95WCFu9L fE+9FqJTAEzHzygoq7LwSe4/1jV8BFSKW1EzmYPPeXOfgMB4AK+ICDXm014kS0qZ96Yd mgyXBUfR7vG9O0BQOS2lRu5LMlPCnC8rDSdHHmjV93OO9bQUco7mfE8DUYd0ou0KaIkM diXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=c/uLpMqk6Eie/RGnwe+j7D5Bd0hXtj0lebvW+oZ5uB0=; b=goxsXxtv0lcakktyD4ZmZ/9vJFPzFVjmVprnCAJ+8sUcr3hGXqqtIhUTQxKNiNnss8 YXb3YH+Y6Fcl5LZZjTqyIll86K5Pm+IIE7GYIbVzUDB0JiY8SqmCKvFtwg631P56Azih 86kDo7abbnJyraHTLuvyKlZ4mvaxbCG0TIHxomu7bYonAmktAmyIxvkAp7lMM0WA/1Dr d6SzuptAi8hUpZbyEAGL9VjUgfpUqMl6bjjMsdcpxyTPL8fLIKsW0486QvST8+za0GrM ALmvsgU36Y4Tc5M+lvuu66U2qUoCFiqo7hWEOEc2P29KYux9GMTieA25o6hHhLbJf6MQ terg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KU/RSNoEM3Zw1+bgh3OuDbpxOSQxwfAwrP/cglpqE3DyAygIL MfPiUcXU5KVBcHa7a4qz6dJUpJRkkZdt9LPQzSw92mhX+10= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfZO5FmlCokZqwZMA046OWJfuTSXSSLZUYeuJoSX5ZUPk6RIOPF9kRkt376X4bBGBgIPPQG/9vpFOs+99VZQY= X-Received: by 2002:aca:f583:: with SMTP id t125mr10157733oih.102.1594540539353; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:55:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200711203020.GA1884@minnie.tuhs.org> <20200711222935.GU29318@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20200711222935.GU29318@mcvoy.com> From: Ed Bradford Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 02:55:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy , TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d9d9c05aa39e627" Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Research X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000006d9d9c05aa39e627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2020-07-12 Indian Hill, Columbus, Whippany, Holmdel, and other BTL sites worked on automating the Telephone system. A lot of the software was designed, implemented, and deployed into the telcos and AT&T Longlines on Unix. Operating telcos welcomed all Unix based systems. I worked on the NOC (Network Operating Center) in Bedminster, NJ, and the LMOS (Loop Maintenance Operations system) both of which were designed, implemented, and deployed using Unix as the operating system. Unix was a huge thing throughout the labs for developing solutions for the Telcos from 1976 onwards. I was at BTL from 1976-1983 and traveled to Murray Hill often. I met and engaged with many of the folks (Feldman, Chesson, Aho, Bourne, Thompson, Ritchie, Lesk, Weinberger, and even Doug). All of them were welcoming and extremely patient with me and to this day I remember all of them. Unix was a godsend to me after having to deal with IBM operating systems for scientific calculations. I arrived into BTL in 1976 in Columbus, Ohio and all I had ever used before was punched cards and OS/360 systems. (cbunix uber alles :-). "Messages" and "semaphores" were what was in the Unix (cbunix) we used and I don't recall who implemented them.("Messages" was interprocess messages. I even forget how they worked, but using "messages", I implemented inter-processor messages where processes on one computer could msg processes on a 2nd computer without any modification to the Unix source code.) The most depressing thing even to today is the deplorable lack of wisdom demonstrated by IBM, Microsoft, and AT&T in bringing computing to the public. LSX could have been deployed on the first IBM PC (1982). I suspect IBM and its vaunted research lab and Gates/Allen were singularly ignorant of the revolutionary ideas from 1127 even in 1981. AT&T was complicit by holding Unix close to its chest (in search of profit) while enjoying a government protected monopoly. Indeed, after spending 17 years in IBM, it is more than likely IBM was arrogant and dismissive of 'unix' (as was DEC - Digital Equipment Corporation) and especially the C programming language. One only needs to look at the source code of AIX to see that all of Doug's "principals" were missing and presumed dead in the IBM AIX software culture. No software invention in the world of computing compares to what Ken, Dennis and 1127 folks have given the world. Now, 50 years later, the world is embracing Unix. There is a political story here about excellence and profit and how they relate; not to be told by me, here. Ed PS: I spent approximately 2 hours trying to get the presentation of this post to look like what I produced in gvim (vi = Bill Joy). All formatting WORK is a direct result of Bill Gates (and Steve Jobs) not understanding or listening to Doug and his principles of text, simplicity, and pipes. On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 5:30 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 07:58:01AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote: > > Not everyone played with the rest, and we didn't do as much work with > > development was management asked, but that world was very special. I miss > > it every day. > > I'm super jealous of your experiences there. I've told anyone who would > listen that Bell Labs held more of what I'd call my heroes than any other > place. > > I went to Sun because it was as close as I could get in my day, and it was > good, but Bell Labs seems like it was magic. > -- Advice is judged by results, not by intentions. Cicero --0000000000006d9d9c05aa39e627 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
= 2020-07-12

Indian Hill, Columbus, Whipp= any, Holmdel, and
other BTL sites worked = on automating the Telephone
system. A lot= of the software was designed,
implemente= d, and deployed into the telcos
and AT&am= p;T Longlines on Unix. Operating telcos welcomed
all Unix based systems. I worked on the NOC
(Network Operating Center) in Bedminster, NJ, and
the LMOS (Loop Maintenance Operations system)
both of which were designed, implemented, and
deployed using Unix as the operating system. = Unix
was a huge thing throughout the labs= for
developing solutions for the Telcos = from 1976 onwards.

I was at BTL from 1976-1983 and traveled to
Murray Hill often. I met and engaged with many of
the folks (Feldman, Chesson, Aho, Bourne,
Thompson, Ritchie, Lesk, Weinberger, and ev= en
Doug). All of them were welcoming and<= /div>
extremely patient with me and to this day= I
remember all of them.

Unix was a godsen= d to me after having to deal
with IBM ope= rating systems for scientific
calculation= s. I arrived into BTL in 1976
in Columbus= , Ohio and all I had ever used before was
punched cards and OS/360 systems. (cbunix uber
alles :-).

"Messages" and "semaphores" were what
was in the Unix (cbunix) we used and I don= 't recall who
implemented them.("= ;Messages" was interprocess
messages= . I even forget how they worked, but using
"messages", I implemented inter-processor
messages where processes on one computer could msg
processes on a 2nd computer without any
modification to the Unix source code.)

The most depress= ing thing even to today is the
deplorable= lack of wisdom demonstrated by IBM,
Micr= osoft, and AT&T in bringing computing to the
public. LSX could have been deployed on the first
IBM PC (1982). I suspect IBM and its vaunted research
lab and Gates/Allen were singularly ignoran= t of
the revolutionary ideas from 1127 ev= en in
1981. AT&T was complicit by hol= ding Unix close to
its chest (in search o= f profit) while enjoying a
government pro= tected monopoly.

Indeed, after spending 17 years in IBM, it is
more than likely IBM was arrogant and dismissive of
'unix' (as was DEC - Digital Equipme= nt Corporation)
and especially the C prog= ramming language.
One only needs to look = at the source code of AIX
to see that all= of Doug's "principals" were
missing and presumed dead in the IBM AIX software
culture.

No software invention in the world of computing
compares to what Ken, Dennis and 1127
folks have given the world. Now, 50 years later,
the world is embracing Unix.

There is a politi= cal story here about excellence
and profi= t and how they relate; not to be
told by = me, here.

Ed

PS: I spent approximately 2 hours trying
to get the presentation of this post to look
like what I produced in gvim (vi =3D Bill Joy).
All formatting WORK is a direct result
of Bill Gates (and Steve Jobs) not understanding
or listening to Doug and his principles of
=
text, simplicity, and pipes.

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 5:30 PM = Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:=
On Sun, Jul 12,= 2020 at 07:58:01AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
> Not everyone played with the rest, and we didn't do as much work w= ith
> development was management asked, but that world was very special. I m= iss
> it every day.

I'm super jealous of your experiences there.=C2=A0 I've told anyone= who would
listen that Bell Labs held more of what I'd call my heroes than any oth= er
place.

I went to Sun because it was as close as I could get in my day, and it was<= br> good, but Bell Labs seems like it was magic.


--
=
Advice is judged by results, not by in= tentions.
=C2=A0 Cicero

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