From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4383 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2023 05:41:20 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Aug 2023 05:41:20 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B30426EC; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:41:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91503426EA for ; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:41:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-522462d8416so3515213a12.1 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2023 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691214068; x=1691818868; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=t/ZYiyai54rPeXWLHXDGXoi48itAKYg/b35cfB1GSS0=; b=Em44Wud0s74GBrG8wvyZB3lLZGrtCrtZeCz9+5RExPVWlAIYHbgAr+xg7yqC8iIuKP lv/ScdZCzh3YYJlNibuihUGr88gx00u0wbXnFX9v9t4lPucMWVEmACBREmfSe2oikgzo lNfLZ2H9H5HfdJzCV1PoD8sCCXl3utwDGIig8Y71vvkehgRBuQ6szzGOk+L8xgEKL5rY WeHFxzVkjf+x3G9B6LoOdB3Ulz116i+LbiteAYGpPWIw6zzOThV19ZdVLMyENnXPmSHR Jz77oAU1HaBITG/6IaNWWzKS4BkhI8sGdRVQrdn1VjsL3Vi0DYQ7GjNvupKQy+fN6fsm 81qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691214068; x=1691818868; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=t/ZYiyai54rPeXWLHXDGXoi48itAKYg/b35cfB1GSS0=; b=C/PESBW86SGOK3iMFcEVrtWBU0vAPDxT1cAUqz9+OLYzZAMMmVLXlXhh4yh+qU8crh 3I+M9NfnCgwnxKX7aeOzy+ezszkFv0DKkM3z59MSspfut/8ndsRD+YuPGLQYz11XGxvA P2ImTLYWd+xRWYT0OTua4d1POlIrX0tZhsysOiqTaH2hszZIvLLszgHCgVmFhcmIz+rO P/30BAdXSUTV5ByYzxKY6gFaS4H0ZrHOLEIEYazhVbfYLuHUSicUeCrOJO1rA2Z4b6xM EZGL63y8mh6/otSd05kal19ktuwl2k90kDLZk0mY6Ze64lZ6uiBiOsUoxxWauagMyyxo o/Ew== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwCVs5C+y9uYXiDSULMBNNDFi53Vc2KG30zpivutk8mbNZ4mGOV Pvb5uXHyknlKRs6tH9cN63aQNfxc2Kinedik77k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHNrZSSuFygiuiMDiNyzcxSzYdxDc5wMRe8+IhbNIQlq0rzm9yDiqI+/kIEOq4ApmpFeR64wiLBjDDiwapb9lw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:12d8:b0:523:22d9:6c40 with SMTP id k24-20020a05640212d800b0052322d96c40mr1439855edx.17.1691214067603; Fri, 04 Aug 2023 22:41:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8246.1690761540@cesium.clock.org> <29602.1690887524@cesium.clock.org> <20230803005106.GA12652@mcvoy.com> <20230804194706.GJ24315@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230804194706.GJ24315@mcvoy.com> From: Ed Bradford Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 00:40:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bd1cf50602267516" Message-ID-Hash: FB5GTVPVMA4WLLEBSC6BB6FACDEBCJCF X-Message-ID-Hash: FB5GTVPVMA4WLLEBSC6BB6FACDEBCJCF X-MailFrom: egbegb2@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Grant Taylor , segaloco , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: python List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000bd1cf50602267516 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Larry. I've found printf a jump in usability among the languages I've used (FORTRAN, Visual Basic, Java, PHP and a few more). Python3's f-strings are a major readability/suportability advance over printf. There is nothing I know of as usable, readable, and supportable. I have yet to find anything I can't do with f-strings than I could with printf. There must be some one who has pros and cons of f-strings on this list? I would like to hear thoughts. Ed On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 2:47=E2=80=AFPM Larry McVoy wrote: > We did something sort of like that in Little, all double quoted strings > look for ${anything} in the string and evaluates it and prints. Like > fstrings, you can do puts("Print 5 + 7 =3D ${5 + 7}"); > > We used single quoted strings as pure strings. > > It's handy and sometimes more readable than printf. > > http://www.little-lang.org/little.html#String_interpolation > > On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 02:20:06PM -0500, Ed Bradford wrote: > > To all: > > > > Python 3's fstrings > > https://realpython.com/python-f-strings/ > > seem to me to be a huge improvement over printf > > and its close relatives. > > > > What are people's views about the pro's and con's and > > how do print and strings compare in usability? > > > > Ed > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:07???PM Clem Cole wrote: > > > > > IMO (Like Larry) no printf stinks. But the real killer for my sustai= n > for > > > Python is the use white space and being typeless. My daughter loves > it > > > for her cloud development and we argue a bit. But it was the first > > > language she really mastered in college and she never took a > competitive > > > languages course so I???m not so sure really had experienced much > beyond it > > > for real programs. Maybe I???m just an old fart but between C, Go > and Rust > > > I???m pretty good. I do write scripts in Bourne shell and or awk > truth be > > > known. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:51 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:49:18PM -0400, Rich Salz wrote: > > >> > > [Python is] meant for mainly functional programming as I > understand it > > >> > > > >> > Not true. It has some neat functional features (list > comprehensions) but > > >> > that's not really its intent. > > >> > > >> I've really tried to like python but any language that doesn't has > printf > > >> as builtin is not for me. Yes, I know about their library printf bu= t > it > > >> is weird. > > >> -- > > >> --- > > >> Larry McVoy Retired to fishing > > >> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat > > >> > > > -- > > > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual > > > > > > > > > -- > > Advice is judged by results, not by intentions. > > Cicero > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat > --=20 Advice is judged by results, not by intentions. Cicero --000000000000bd1cf50602267516 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Larry. I've found printf a jump in usability among = the
languages I've used (FORTRAN, Visual Basic, Java, PHP and a few mo= re). Python3's
f-strings are a major readability/suportability=C2=A0ad= vance over printf. There
is nothing I know of as usable,=C2=A0readable, an= d supportable.
I have yet to find anything I can't do
with f-strings= than I could with printf.

There must be some one who has pros and c= ons of f-strings on this list?
I would like to hear thoughts.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Ed
<= br>




On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 2:47=E2=80=AFPM Larry McV= oy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
We did something sort of= like that in Little, all double quoted strings
look for ${anything} in the string and evaluates it and prints.=C2=A0 Like<= br> fstrings, you can do puts("Print 5 + 7 =3D ${5 + 7}");=C2=A0

We used single quoted strings as pure strings.

It's handy and sometimes more readable than printf.

http://www.little-lang.org/little.html#St= ring_interpolation

On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 02:20:06PM -0500, Ed Bradford wrote:
> To all:
>
> Python 3's fstrings
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://realpython.com/python-f-strings/<= /a>
> seem to me to be a huge improvement over printf
> and its close relatives.
>
> What are people's views about the pro's and con's and
> how do print and strings compare in usability?
>
> Ed
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:07???PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> > IMO (Like Larry) no printf stinks.=C2=A0 But the real killer for = my sustain for
> > Python is the use white space and being typeless.=C2=A0 =C2=A0My = daughter loves it
> > for her cloud development and we argue a bit.=C2=A0 But it was th= e first
> > language she really mastered in college and she never took a comp= etitive
> > languages course so I???m not so sure really had experienced much= beyond it
> > for real programs.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maybe I???m just an old fart but b= etween C, Go and Rust
> > I???m pretty good.=C2=A0 I do write scripts in Bourne shell and o= r awk truth be
> > known.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:51 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:49:18PM -0400, Rich Salz wrote: > >> > > [Python is] meant for mainly functional programming= as I understand it
> >> >
> >> > Not true. It has some neat functional features (list com= prehensions) but
> >> > that's not really its intent.
> >>
> >> I've really tried to like python but any language that do= esn't has printf
> >> as builtin is not for me.=C2=A0 Yes, I know about their libra= ry printf but it
> >> is weird.
> >> --
> >> ---
> >> Larry McVoy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Retired t= o fishing
> >> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
> >>
> > --
> > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
> >
>
>
> --
> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Cicero

--
---
Larry McVoy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Retired to fishing=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat


--
Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
=C2=A0 Ci= cero

--000000000000bd1cf50602267516--