From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2023 23:48:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Sep 2023 23:48:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9221E410BE; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 09:48:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42FB5410B2 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 09:48:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-578d0dcd4e1so480317a12.2 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695167279; x=1695772079; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qAAAo8S2R3x6v/iiQSbxGMZi9cnEX0aqkrZBOILUQ3Q=; b=VUaNVW6DXEy8s7KiDbfNEbBhdmyL1K36yjG8jZR8kNWSQW3g7pIRTmoQwjeVNY0IGf VOF5V+brPa0eVeYKVNwnXTvqYOBHue0a2V3EEt0goNOkc1NI/aEVP6AD6AMCNyPwgljb OWWxCzpU7Ln/UxugfcOGd4ye85VSkPcFMTowMmnTF/uVN7tsOCA+CsjZmVerrPqrkqdY wovgtQD6nE2iUzeTiG/akUMvXq3hLe4iqG/yiDGXUGSZSrUY9tBhXvPJ2Lq+/9EEk6rG quaAmLcRK4BFFyBBP5OXPGtrTuxUh5m5TD/VIUyIYmR7mIiYEPhuphxyELiVVaqQvYmk 1qVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695167279; x=1695772079; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=qAAAo8S2R3x6v/iiQSbxGMZi9cnEX0aqkrZBOILUQ3Q=; b=BDnuZUsV96DLCFDmRFvybcY1/SazdJOZHmRvAoR3Ep9c5e4X+1AD9K0PZKFr8F6R+q ynkRjHmNc986GFBui5B0tb+YNVY1Rv1fXVVXDT1w7D9PgJk8udG7kI+r1JXXj3VBV/f1 iHY7e4tZ/uI+0D6LutUTUXRnoHuN9yIkcVQyPMZRt0716Q4m/osqxsLvJEHnlEOKapqR jx3fzygc9TSCvipk6IHTMzsznu0Gl83hyMwUomDeIHVwMwysTNZ7FfjoU+VzNFpvfIBv TBewV1TXkORBYeg4Ms3AE2VR7yLQPgv+ZLdi+vI0K4JceKscbBSuRvLq7mKo5S7G0eLF DyMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yypdjp9My92FyCP5aK0mXNcNvdhcumYON4rPpCulbZP1TBcEeyK uzCqgZNUtrtcCxU1az+7qpzDwISngTacqx8JyXM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEKwkH+5dasyjxmFmoC7UPVK19rZfAfjML9kH9uSjx4nSxV01bpWCAuRSpJfujtriQzZnt4syOscXMb4TrfLf4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1253:b0:269:851:4f00 with SMTP id gx19-20020a17090b125300b0026908514f00mr1032402pjb.35.1695167279357; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:47:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4CmySC-mFud1dlrqfAq1itmNKoTWVi8cTuAqCvtUengKvv5CWEoYCFf6-I18dwf5BVSZWAxC-B6BP6Y1e0Gi_mlga344b5cxu5TlUCLXHeg=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4CmySC-mFud1dlrqfAq1itmNKoTWVi8cTuAqCvtUengKvv5CWEoYCFf6-I18dwf5BVSZWAxC-B6BP6Y1e0Gi_mlga344b5cxu5TlUCLXHeg=@protonmail.com> From: KenUnix Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:47:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: segaloco Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000085647a0605bee38c" Message-ID-Hash: 7TZPHRVYLYIMBDFXUBVRUXW5VBMMQJQ6 X-Message-ID-Hash: 7TZPHRVYLYIMBDFXUBVRUXW5VBMMQJQ6 X-MailFrom: ken.unix.guy@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Project Idea: The UNIX Programmer's Manual: Heritage Edition List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000085647a0605bee38c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matt, There was a book printed by Newnes titled UNIX pocket book. It covers System-V Xenix, BSD 4.3, C-shell, plus the usual commands. Also has sections dedicated to system administration, vi, rebuilding the kernel, Bourne Shell, C-Shell, Korn Shell, etc... It was written by Steve Heath 1998 "ISBN 0 7506 410 88" 340 pages. A good read. Only problem, for my eyes it is physically too small. -Ken On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM segaloco via TUHS w= rote: > I haven't known when or how to bring up this project idea, but figure I > might as well start putting feelers out since my Dragon Quest project is > starting to slow down and I might focus back on UNIX manual stuff. > > So something painfully missing from my and I'm sure plenty of other folks= ' > libraries is a nice, modern paper UNIX manual that takes the past few > decades into consideration. The GNU project, BSDs, etc. ship manpages of > course, and there's the POSIX manpages, but I'm a sucker for a good print > manual. Something I'm thinking of producing as a "deliverable" of sorts > from my documentation research is a new-age UNIX manual, derived as close= ly > as possible from the formal UNIX documentation lineages (so Research, Sys= V, > and BSD pages), but: > > 1. Including subsequent POSIX requirements > 2. Including an informational section in each page with a little > history and some notes about current implementations, if applicable. Thi= s > would include notes about "dead on the vine" stuff like things plucked fr= om > the CB-UNIX, MERT/PG, and PWB lines. The history part could even be a > separate book, that way the manual itself could stay tight and focused. > This would also be a good place for luminaries to provide reflections on > their involvement in given pieces. > > One of the main questions that I have in mind is what the legal landscape > of producing such a thing would entail. At the very least, to actually > call it a UNIX Programmer's Manual, it would probably need to pass some > sort of compliance with the materials The Open Group publishes. That sai= d, > the ownership of the IP as opposed to the trademarks is a little less > certain, so I would be a bit curious who all would be involved in > specifically getting copyright approval to publish anything that happened > the commercial line after the early 80s, so like new text produced after > 1982. I presume anything covered by the Caldera license at least could b= e > published at-cost, but not for a profit (which I'm not looking for anyway= .) > > Additionally, if possible, I'd love to run down some authorship > information and make sure folks who wrote stuff up over time are properly > credited, if not on each page ala OWNER at least in a Acknowledgements > section in the front. > > As far as production, I personally would want to do a run with a couple o= f > different cover styles, comb bound, maybe one echoing the original Bell > Laboratories UNIX User's Manual-style cover complete with Bell logo, > another using the original USENIX Beastie cover, etc. but that also then > calls into question more copyrights to coordinate, especially with the wa= y > the Bell logo is currently owned, that could get complicated. > > Anywho, anyone know of any such efforts like this? If I actually got suc= h > a project going in earnest, would folks find themselves interested in suc= h > a publication? In any case I do intend to start on a typesetter sources > version of this project sometime in the next year or so, but ideally I > would want it to blossom into something that could result in some physica= l > media. This idea isn't even half-baked yet by the way, so just know I > don't have a roadmap in place, it's just something I see being a cool > potential project over the coming years. > > - Matt G. > --=20 End of line JOB TERMINATED --00000000000085647a0605bee38c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Matt,

There was a book print= ed by Newnes titled UNIX pocket book. It covers System-V Xenix, BSD 4.3, C-= shell, plus the usual commands.

Also has sections = dedicated to system administration, vi, rebuilding the kernel, Bourne Shell= , C-Shell, Korn Shell, etc...

It was wr= itten by Steve Heath 1998 "ISBN 0 7506 410 88" 340 pages. A good = read. Only problem, for my eyes it is physically too small.

<= /div>
-Ken


On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM = segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>= ; wrote:
I haven= 't known when or how to bring up this project idea, but figure I might = as well start putting feelers out since my Dragon Quest project is starting= to slow down and I might focus back on UNIX manual stuff.

So something painfully missing from my and I'm sure plenty of other fol= ks' libraries is a nice, modern paper UNIX manual that takes the past f= ew decades into consideration.=C2=A0 The GNU project, BSDs, etc. ship manpa= ges of course, and there's the POSIX manpages, but I'm a sucker for= a good print manual.=C2=A0 Something I'm thinking of producing as a &q= uot;deliverable" of sorts from my documentation research is a new-age = UNIX manual, derived as closely as possible from the formal UNIX documentat= ion lineages (so Research, SysV, and BSD pages), but:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1. Including subsequent POSIX requirements
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2. Including an informational section in each page with a lit= tle history and some notes about current implementations, if applicable.=C2= =A0 This would include notes about "dead on the vine" stuff like = things plucked from the CB-UNIX, MERT/PG, and PWB lines.=C2=A0 The history = part could even be a separate book, that way the manual itself could stay t= ight and focused.=C2=A0 This would also be a good place for luminaries to p= rovide reflections on their involvement in given pieces.

One of the main questions that I have in mind is what the legal landscape o= f producing such a thing would entail.=C2=A0 At the very least, to actually= call it a UNIX Programmer's Manual, it would probably need to pass som= e sort of compliance with the materials The Open Group publishes.=C2=A0 Tha= t said, the ownership of the IP as opposed to the trademarks is a little le= ss certain, so I would be a bit curious who all would be involved in specif= ically getting copyright approval to publish anything that happened the com= mercial line after the early 80s, so like new text produced after 1982.=C2= =A0 I presume anything covered by the Caldera license at least could be pub= lished at-cost, but not for a profit (which I'm not looking for anyway.= )

Additionally, if possible, I'd love to run down some authorship informa= tion and make sure folks who wrote stuff up over time are properly credited= , if not on each page ala OWNER at least in a Acknowledgements section in t= he front.

As far as production, I personally would want to do a run with a couple of = different cover styles, comb bound, maybe one echoing the original Bell Lab= oratories UNIX User's Manual-style cover complete with Bell logo, anoth= er using the original USENIX Beastie cover, etc. but that also then calls i= nto question more copyrights to coordinate, especially with the way the Bel= l logo is currently owned, that could get complicated.

Anywho, anyone know of any such efforts like this?=C2=A0 If I actually got = such a project going in earnest, would folks find themselves interested in = such a publication?=C2=A0 In any case I do intend to start on a typesetter = sources version of this project sometime in the next year or so, but ideall= y I would want it to blossom into something that could result in some physi= cal media.=C2=A0 This idea isn't even half-baked yet by the way, so jus= t know I don't have a roadmap in place, it's just something I see b= eing a cool potential project over the coming years.

- Matt G.


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