Again, thanks for the help. It is appreciated. Ken On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:44 AM Clem Cole wrote: > Matt - again, thank you. I just did a diff between the man pages from > the System III version on TUHS and the version I have from Kirk's CD set > [which was what we had a UCB]. The System III version looks different from > the UCB man page (*e.g*., no plot() functions and a few other things). > So, I did a little checking last night and wrote a couple of emails to > some folks. The evidence I have found does seem to me that Dick Haight wrote > the original bs(1) command. Note that Dolotta, Haight, Piskorik, and > Mashey were the original PWB 1.0 core team, as it were. But ... looking > at my printed PWB 1.0 manual, there does not seem to be a bs(1) man page. > However, we know that while PWB was never released officially outside of > the Bell System - although parts of PWB 'leaked' to MIT, CMU, and UCB > [probably via the OYOC's -- Noel's MIT system is clearly influenced by PWB > 1.0 and I know the CMU system we had was also thanks to folks like tjk and > Phil Karn]. The point is that many/most of the commands from PWB [with > SCCS being the most important], if not the full kernel itself, arrived in > those places. > > So a semi-educated >>WAG<< ... with the evidence being that > > 1. Haight's bs(1) was different from Ken's bas(1) which was in V7, > 2. bs(1) is on Kirk's CD (disk4), > 3. we know parts of PWB leaked from Bell, > 4. I personally remember having it at UCB; > > Kirk's version at UCB predated the System III/V one you have, and it is > likely an either Haight version from PWB 1.0 somehow. We know a Dale and > their team in Columbus not only wrote their own enhancements, but they > also took the source from all over: Research, PWB, and some of the > universities. The CB/UNIX folks likely updated bs(1), and later, when > some of the CB UNIX enhancement made it back to Summit and in PWB 2, 3, and > the like - that's where the updated version appeared. > > Clem > ᐧ > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 12:29 AM segaloco via TUHS wrote: > >> Here are raw[1] and nroff-d[2] restorations of the CB-UNIX 2.1 stamped >> page: >> >> [1] - https://pastebin.com/EAjMyvSn >> [2] - https://pastebin.com/Dgh1g5q8 >> >> According to a diff with the 3.0 manpage in the tree[3], these are some >> changes of note from CB 2.1 to PWB 3.0: >> >> - Added ibase, obase >> - Added elif and using a single fi to end an if elif else chain >> - Added return for returning from function calls >> - Added support for tables (arrays based on key-value pairs) >> - The plot(11) routine swaps the corners about the y axis >> - A bug is removed indicating a limit of 250 lines, 250 variables, and >> artificial truncation of names to six characters. >> >> Unfortunately the CB 2.1 page on the archive[4] doesn't indicate anything >> of particular note that wasn't pretty much the same in PWB 3.0. >> >> [3] - >> https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/man/man1/bs.1 >> [4] - >> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_01.pdf >> (Page 32-39) >> >> - Matt G. >> ------- Original Message ------- >> On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 5:31 PM, Clem Cole wrote: >> >> Matt. >> >> Does the CB man page match the PWB 3 version? I may be mixing something >> up in my memory so I ask because I seem to remember there were some >> differences between some scripts that came from different places ( We did a >> lot with graphics in the cad group and when we had tools that came from >> other places it was often graphics that bit us which is why I think that >> sticks in my mind). I’ll have to try looking at the version we had at UCB >> in a bit. >> >> As for doc the only thing I remember was a man page for the tool. >> >> Clem >> >> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 4:19 PM segaloco via TUHS wrote: >> >>> The earliest documentation I can spot is the bs(1) man page dated >>> November, 1979 in the CB-UNIX 2.3 Manual (although the page itself is >>> tagged CB-UNIX 2.1.) >>> >>> This appears to be the same lineage as what we see in the commercial PWB >>> releases, however, the earliest backstop I have on that is June, 1980 with >>> 3.0. PWB 1.0 contains no such page, and unfortunately the situation right >>> around 1979 is still a bit fuzzy re: PWB 2.0 and UNIX/TS. That said, the >>> preface to the CB-UNIX 2.3 manual (which is also a 2.1 page from 1979) pays >>> no credit to the UNIX/TS 1.1 nor PWB 2.0 manuals the way the PWB 3.0 >>> preface does, so perhaps bs(1) started in CB? >>> >>> Looking forward, this utility persists up til SVR2, but is gone as of >>> the SVR3 globe-with-UNIX-lines manual series. Curiously, it was also >>> omitted from the 3B20 PWB 4.1 manual, but the 5.0 and subsequent System V 1 >>> and 2 manuals don't have a hardware-exclusivity masthead mark, so this was >>> likely made portable/ported to 3B20 sometime around '81. In any case, none >>> of the man pages in any of these manuals indicate any memoranda or other >>> papers in the SEE ALSO. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but points to the >>> likelihood that the manpage is really all you get documentation-wise. Even >>> the BTL versions don't mention any papers. >>> >>> In any case, that's what I could turn up, there is a bs(1) manpage in >>> the following versions: >>> >>> - 1979 - CB-UNIX 2.1 >>> - 1980 - PWB 3.0/System III >>> - 1981 - PWB 4.x (Non 3B20) >>> - 1981 - CB-UNIX 2.3 (unmodified from 2.1) >>> - 1982 - PWB 5.0 >>> - 1983 - System V >>> - 1984 - System V Release 2 >>> >>> Hope that helps. All of these save the 4.x version should be in various >>> places around. I don't remember seeing anything outrageously different >>> between 3.0 and 5.0, so it very well may be that the 4.x manpage could be >>> easily synthesized with a diff, but I don't have a physical page to prove >>> anything. >>> >>> - Matt G. >>> ------- Original Message ------- >>> >>> On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 8:06 AM, KenUnix >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi. >>> >>> Was any documentation ever done for the basic interpreter >>> that was on System-V? >>> >>> Things like allowed keywords or special keywords. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> -- >>> WWL 📚 Okey Dokey OK Boss >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual >> >> >> -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey OK Boss