From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10735 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2023 10:41:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Mar 2023 10:41:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A440412EE; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:41:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A074841297 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:41:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id ce8-20020a17090aff0800b0023a61cff2c6so12953175pjb.0 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:41:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1678704064; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=R0vMrPz+I3ZPmOEb6ZqviHMs0b+WViI8VX6Z/T2y10s=; b=YnyiHMw/v+JfCOQkIj8nU09IMmtIVWR6/fFsNk18p6Tm3k8fQgyBag9r2dJ58KHg/0 XdwG+0Mz2yoBnPWYjkhT2JaKTfO6F+qMZl3YTB/F8N4HUZ4k1Dm2rKphku+6DYsNXXYn YKJjdWjWdROJcsyeatdkbTBudM9d6Ldqg0ZoVA3vMuOrkEzA1eOIoGbccI0F9KBNu4RG j6DP4KcIun+6/0pcUXMZUwTog3hILCm0NKcsiLQP5TdupCwzIS9oTQtj4qDzQN1+g38e lUNHtq15uH0bjjOzjnBf8tAlU3+h7kXduYr1iDRa+2aM240n7cakFn4kc+v1gkaOvqRF Q0sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678704064; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=R0vMrPz+I3ZPmOEb6ZqviHMs0b+WViI8VX6Z/T2y10s=; b=ScgIuNYbpEfTUZ0guB9DN9gNpZofmhwsGcwtzOEWlVaL/YsWm/SsGWWoyYBT0TMlHG zyIisGhjmqgY7qgvjFB8Go/KNVEAClJnjG/Q0ofHeMXXAjGvhGall9bg3rGGgb7y9plp TOZXFDkN+6ExelMCdjF4IGuzNS+2ZnoIBYn7LdMTGxYAvZDEl4Fs4ApDsHDDizPH8DdO IH2VGaG3uNUc5ga+TYJliVQWZ3BIz4H0syQPeI+qnMaBEK6VQ+szmpLDLZxhI/LOXKA/ jE1kDE9lJHJFH6VCRCn8haR2gbHkygWbnnmadKl96mMhFM2wmv7/zEgwQjizxkq5/V5L O9PQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKUwnUviGSg2VE+d3InMGfECdGi0ewZ6iGUOqE+96oMj0CE+Tal6 ZlAvUEda7n2RyjEtlpry2bvdsDQ0Mx9Wz1f4BZ0wCxv/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8x6R1wNqlVxigJf9dxKo0FUd4opGlZJ0HvXhIY302GfAVGTwHwjZYOIpfIU9Mg1sv5PP2T5q3qYFm1gAi0dec= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ed82:b0:194:6fc1:801f with SMTP id e2-20020a170902ed8200b001946fc1801fmr13241574plj.6.1678704064149; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:41:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230310113708.AD55518C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:40:51 +0100 Message-ID: To: John Cowan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d3f0905f6c5bf51" Message-ID-Hash: DZCWHYRRCSNJT74YB5J36ZGSUF6SNPRT X-Message-ID-Hash: DZCWHYRRCSNJT74YB5J36ZGSUF6SNPRT X-MailFrom: alx.mailinglists@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: I can't drive 55: "GOTO considered harmful" 55th anniversary List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000006d3f0905f6c5bf51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 04:26 John Cowan wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 7:40=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross wrot= e: > > >> It is certainly a shame that modern compiler writers have become >> essentially hostile to programmers in their pursuit of ever more aggress= ive >> optimizations based on rigid readings of the standard, common sense be >> damned. >> > > Not at all. It is clear that mainstream C and C++ compilers optimize for > the features most important to mainstream C and C++ programmers, which ar= e: > > 1) Execution speed. > > 2) Execution speed. > > 3) I lied; there is no 3. > > If those are not your priorities, use a non-mainstream compiler or a > different programming language. > Or you can ask GCC to respect your view of the language with things like -fno-strict-aliasing, -fwrapv, and -fno-trapv. > --0000000000006d3f0905f6c5bf51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 04:26 John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:


On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 7:40=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross <crossd@gm= ail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=
It is certainly a shame that modern compiler = writers have become essentially hostile to programmers in their pursuit of = ever more aggressive optimizations based on rigid readings of the standard,= common sense be damned.

Not at all.=C2=A0 It is clear that mainstream C and C++ com= pilers optimize for the features most important to mainstream C and C++ pro= grammers, which are:

1) Execution speed.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:"times new roman"= ;,serif;font-size:large">2) Execution speed.

3) I lied; there is no 3.

If those are not you= r priorities, use a non-mainstream compiler or a different programming lang= uage.

Or you can ask GCC to respect your view of the language = with things like -fno-strict-aliasing, -fwrapv, and -fno-trapv.
--0000000000006d3f0905f6c5bf51--