From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2426 invoked from network); 20 May 2023 23:39:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 May 2023 23:39:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87434410D6; Sun, 21 May 2023 09:39:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-x2e.google.com (mail-oa1-x2e.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94F0C410D2 for ; Sun, 21 May 2023 09:39:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-x2e.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1962e7284baso3447187fac.3 for ; Sat, 20 May 2023 16:39:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684625967; x=1687217967; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+fIc+8BAXESWUEazr4ApM0zUQXGATdq2UAnukMth1CE=; b=cJ3nkpv5PrrHHnPo5FdslHLaX1Oc9p62pOXWJBDXZ/admlbrFRNVOilglbpSeh8ICH PPI8XhwpEQwShJrD/HVDCiPq9hOJo1LSLIo091DHdDBtz3jDkwaX7CpB6HexACCbIw13 zFewC/91xrBhhul7Rc4E8nR4fiFYby/XGdD8HoQiGY6MboYyX3l4+opUNHO5wm/hbz4/ O1jEAoag9wS811v8je0Uhv9e+qVRgshdzjfTHz9DrUwKsuvbWYDRttqhKFgqtZPHF1wW HE23VHgdn8ORftOoSlZ5MjmYdym/w9hfujLZahlHl+K0ao8yYomngTIFe4AJ1rgU37Ix oE0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684625967; x=1687217967; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+fIc+8BAXESWUEazr4ApM0zUQXGATdq2UAnukMth1CE=; b=IQFCWEW0zOJHQt5CNqfK+AsOdPId239NKoWatKB6gJLlRxKPP5l/JnCqBmVRdGglqA 3e2YGaq710CSjFPQpfXME1dp/Xd/zp9eP0gIHpM6sHy34L33S/CwlR47HDXsWfkM56lL Sy0WBhLLD6oY9EAHVqBQV+goDWDMRKlc4N1SfpVvd53mIja11KpkNiiqX9Nr0kyGwV60 rTFDYAXFq5MbRNk9d5COAd8t8V4x4GK9DESSq7RXuKgipAxEqJNzpwxJQWmujTjQcI6c O/msVh4jUw8m+M5m5x3V3zrpB3Q87kAeCpVQZx5mHmvOIzMvnF+odTUoQgE+cd8JhqYh fITA== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDw9mma8DISUp98gPVGjzmRSTB/U6nxIvEToswRXs2JslcDiAbjo 6w0h4HgrIlC+0Za92dg3OgIXuQiWHNJ6SEg9KSdkVyYM9fY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4oQYdjwef3eJVoRLHuv9Rbp8yNDJNPJe+5CLVM5hzbAwu6Pi44OwRi534nCd5yWFigYcWU4+Gx9b4TDFYG7/c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4501:b0:199:8945:7119 with SMTP id e1-20020a056870450100b0019989457119mr3446461oao.36.1684625967602; Sat, 20 May 2023 16:39:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6950b3d6-483b-cd7b-2ebf-78fa289e6271@gmail.com> <89eeadc5-271a-c984-e55e-662cfeb23f6b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Perrine Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 16:39:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000060e13405fc288ccc" Message-ID-Hash: 6NTF4K6HDQJIMCHBFDLLZUHHWHY7LS75 X-Message-ID-Hash: 6NTF4K6HDQJIMCHBFDLLZUHHWHY7LS75 X-MailFrom: tom.perrine@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Sys-V basic interpreter List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000060e13405fc288ccc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KSOS and related work was sponsored by several DoD activities, at least the part that I worked on - after 1983. We've wandered a bit afar for TUHS(?), but, the PWB and other software wasn't pirated, it was supplied as "government furnished equipment" as part of each contract. PWB and other software we got via the NSA's Tycho site, etc. NRL (and then others) funded later KSOS work, including the Advanced Command and Control Testbed (ACCAT) and various multi-level secure "Guard" systems, for the Navy, Air Force, USAFE, etc. All of which ran on PDP-11s, using the KSOS kernel and userspace, almost all built by using PWB as the build platform. On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 12:09=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole wrote: > I don't think it was pirated. I'm think it was a special license Ford Aer= o > got due to the work with the USG. I sort of remember KSOS and if I'm > correct that was a DoD funded effort for the Orange Book. So it would ma= ke > absolute sense that Ford Aero might have used the USG connections to > convince AT&T to release it to them. As I said, Al was very skittish abo= ut > anything that might be misinterpreted by the Justice dept. But if DoD wa= s > asking for it, Al could show the Jusitce -- "hey -- your people asked for > it -- we were not selling it." > =E1=90=A7 > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM Jon Forrest wr= ote: > >> >> >> On 5/20/2023 11:50 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >> > Taking this off list. >> > >> > I've always wondered about that. Thank you bad word choice -- but it >> > was not officially released outside the Bell System. Since Ford Aero >> > had it, it must have been a very special license. >> >> It was already there when I arrived so I don't know how it got there. >> I doubt it was pirated. >> >> > Was Ford Aero doing something on a Gvt bid when you were using it? >> >> Yes. It was creating KSOS which Tom Ferrine has also mentioned on the >> TUHS list. This was a "provably" secure version of Unix. >> >> You might want to ask John Nagle. His email is probably >> nagle@sitetruth.com, and his GitHub is https://github.com/John-Nagle. >> He was there when I arrived and he was a key developer of KSOS. >> If he doesn't know the answer then he might be able to refer you to >> someone who does. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> --00000000000060e13405fc288ccc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
KSOS and related work was sponsored by several DoD activit= ies, at least the part that I worked on - after 1983.

We= 've wandered a bit afar for TUHS(?), but, the PWB and other software wa= sn't pirated, it was supplied=C2=A0as "government=C2=A0furnished e= quipment" as part of each contract.

PWB and oth= er software we got via the NSA's Tycho site, etc. NRL (and then others)= funded later KSOS work, including the Advanced=C2=A0 Command and Control T= estbed (ACCAT) and various multi-level secure "Guard" systems, fo= r the Navy, Air Force, USAFE, etc.

All of wh= ich ran on PDP-11s, using the KSOS kernel and userspace, almost all built b= y using PWB as the build platform.


=


On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 12:09=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole= <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
I do= n't think it was pirated. I'm think it was a special license Ford A= ero got due to the work with the USG. I sort of remember=C2=A0KSOS and if I= 'm correct that was a DoD funded effort for the Orange Book.=C2=A0 So i= t would make absolute sense that Ford Aero might have used the USG connecti= ons to convince AT&T to release it to them.=C2=A0 As I said, Al was ver= y skittish about anything that might be misinterpreted=C2=A0by the Justice = dept.=C2=A0 But if DoD was asking for it, Al could show the Jusitce=C2=A0--= "hey -- your people asked for it -- we were not selling it."
3D==E1=90=A7

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM Jo= n Forrest <nobozo@= gmail.com> wrote:


On 5/20/2023 11:50 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
> Taking this=C2=A0off list.
>
> I've always wondered about that.=C2=A0 Thank you bad word choice -= - but it
> was not=C2=A0officially=C2=A0released outside the Bell System.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Since Ford Aero
> had it, it must have been a very=C2=A0special license.

It was already there when I arrived so I don't know how it got there. I doubt it was pirated.

> Was Ford Aero doing something on a Gvt bid when you were using it?

Yes. It was creating KSOS which Tom Ferrine has also mentioned on the
TUHS list. This was a "provably" secure version of Unix.

You might want to ask John Nagle. His email is probably
nagle@sitetruth.co= m, and his GitHub is https://github.com/John-Nagle.
He was there when I arrived and he was a key developer of KSOS.
If he doesn't know the answer then he might be able to refer you to
someone who does.

Jon



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