From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26146 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2021 20:13:41 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Feb 2021 20:13:41 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A0B8F9C0A7; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 06:13:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38849BA43; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 06:13:20 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="McWiMvbt"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5715B9BA43; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 06:13:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f44.google.com (mail-vs1-f44.google.com [209.85.217.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A0FF9BA40 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 06:13:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f44.google.com with SMTP id m13so570547vsr.2 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:13:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AJQgYQCwZvMmxogqx+aFQnAYODIfGyjRaB17gzEvxx4=; b=McWiMvbtOJ2EldH7xnuxFTllhzRpR4Rj1ibATLaAyPZt8BD3isZlElTTzlzSwn8pym +VCdeQMOXaYHzI9S/EmgOmQCHXRxCRRua9bRwZVfVCNdg7d09g/tb4AaWms5Zke53uzr +AAFGBEcvDrEd1RjeAIVFadSSiex8TIjnJoMF7CA4k83YIclb78INmX2QscP4UoYxKFn M7fBIWNBfOowOO2xo7YchvQFb5DH5KP5HmpX6iOQvctNvcl0XfH3qXkv1O7BzyBUWDpt ifhBWqoBK8jo/LFcs3oUq2ZsHk1n6ULnJ2qpFT8NkhPlWB/R63YE0MmXwRcqXwZqmKso 7Elg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AJQgYQCwZvMmxogqx+aFQnAYODIfGyjRaB17gzEvxx4=; b=mEDyFtrhY0JliSa5vuSCT5w+cpW4Rw3Ig5LF6SSCxxRYjerT66+SaeYN98mdMIGs7R 3aslLm0liW4C4RWucDjirsv/YNDpf12WC6AtK9lhrW0zx/2rUS30jikqo/Kc0PE/Lo38 pvCuRMSNtd+77O9rwi9h+XX8YoiUfdv6Pay23ii3lGcVzebXJjl7e7V/3EjQVq5Kyz1W gSY4kp36uAdr5/6rZhcf7yupKJ0xIA1mcVFoYGPPMBayJRqoK8mspp1YbU5EMlNyH2L1 ZMVM35f1NZE8nKob8pi8UN/d3xe6wpREA6Lov20FMJOe5Co4cU122H9jShB0ySRqcHfE PXOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Myo+qCoh0hU5hauyD02Uhdi3l4W0mcRVrWf6OgQQoGLY9CTwk a2a3LBcboz60sUxNoJq39ctm1Hw5/278EpYeC74= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmvKXYSUrWGeafuSAl5spiM8XLVo8AF4CVnquAyzXNBOnY+NgVeku9ruI/PxqQpr0QXO5Q7KWXLH8nLFDOGtQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2257:: with SMTP id e23mr2282857vsb.37.1612383197210; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:13:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009202026.08KKQ2x6137303@tahoe.cs.dartmouth.edu> <20210202234703.GH4227@mcvoy.com> <20210203001900.GI4227@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Niklas Karlsson Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:13:05 +0100 Message-ID: To: Dave Horsfall Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b629de05ba743708" Subject: Re: [TUHS] reviving a bit of WWB X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b629de05ba743708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to Wikipedia: The first modern, electronic ternary computer, Setun , was built in 1958 in the Soviet Union at the Moscow State University by Nikolay Brusentsov ,[4] [5] and it had notable advantages over the binary computers that eventually replaced it, such as lower electricity consumption and lower production cost.[4] In 1970 Brusentsov built an enhanced version of the computer, which he called Setun-70.[4] In the United States, the ternary computing emulator Ternac working on a binary machine was developed in 1973.[6] :22 The ternary computer QTC-1 was developed in Canada.[7] Doesn't seem like they caught on otherwise, though. Niklas Den ons 3 feb. 2021 kl 21:10 skrev Dave Horsfall : > On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > I'm not sure that 16 (or any other 2^n) bits is that obvious up front. > > Does anyone know why the computer industry wound up standardising on > > 8-bit bytes? > > Best reason I can think of is System/360 with 8-bit EBCDIC (Ugh! Who sai= d > that "J" should follow "I"?). I'm told that you could coerce it into > using ASCII, although I've never seen it. > > > Scientific computers were word-based and the number of bits in a word i= s > > more driven by the desired float range/precision. Commercial computers > > needed to support BCD numbers and typically 6-bit characters. ASCII > > (when it turned up) was 7 bits and so 8-bit characters wasted =E2=85=9B= of the > > storage. Minis tended to have shorter word sizes to minimise the amoun= t > > of hardware. > > Why would you want to have a 7-bit symbol? Powers of two seem to be > natural on a binary machine (although there is a running joke that CDC > boxes has 7-1/2 bit bytes... > > I guess the real question is why did we move to binary machines at all; > were there ever any ternary machines? > > -- Dave --000000000000b629de05ba743708 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to Wikipedia:

The first modern, electronic ternary computer, Setun, was built in 1958 in the = Soviet Union at the Moscow State University by= Nikolay Brusentsov,[4][5] and it had notable advantages over the binary computers that eventua= lly replaced it, such as lower electricity consumption and lower production= cost.[4]= In 1970 Brusentsov built an enhanced version of the computer, which = he called Setun-70.[4] In the United States, the ternary computing emulator Ternac = working on a binary machine was developed in 1973.[6]:22

The ternary computer QTC-1 was developed in Canada.[7]

Doesn't seem like they caught on otherwise, though.

Niklas

Den ons 3 feb. 2021 kl 21:10 skrev Dave Ho= rsfall <dave@horsfall.org>:<= br>
On Wed, 3 Feb 20= 21, Peter Jeremy wrote:

> I'm not sure that 16 (or any other 2^n) bits is that obvious up fr= ont.
> Does anyone know why the computer industry wound up standardising on <= br> > 8-bit bytes?

Best reason I can think of is System/360 with 8-bit EBCDIC (Ugh!=C2=A0 Who = said
that "J" should follow "I"?).=C2=A0 I'm told that y= ou could coerce it into
using ASCII, although I've never seen it.

> Scientific computers were word-based and the number of bits in a word = is
> more driven by the desired float range/precision.=C2=A0 Commercial com= puters
> needed to support BCD numbers and typically 6-bit characters. ASCII > (when it turned up) was 7 bits and so 8-bit characters wasted =E2=85= =9B of the
> storage.=C2=A0 Minis tended to have shorter word sizes to minimise the= amount
> of hardware.

Why would you want to have a 7-bit symbol?=C2=A0 Powers of two seem to be <= br> natural on a binary machine (although there is a running joke that CDC
boxes has 7-1/2 bit bytes...

I guess the real question is why did we move to binary machines at all; were there ever any ternary machines?

-- Dave
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