From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0745ba36 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 07:21:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4D9D8A1D0A; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953FFA1CE2; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:20:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2C839A1CE2; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:20:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-it1-f178.google.com (mail-it1-f178.google.com [209.85.166.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 901CEA1CE1 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:20:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-it1-f178.google.com with SMTP id x19so2125377itl.1 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:20:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=25zFlmrxX5EZ+WyvrsJmhX6NGKn5iGug1I7sBEu1AUk=; b=kbKYOxYe9xVAh45Mm4+eFf+ETbq1Dy++kf0u02UZZxrqM1YJtAUVe0yH9zgR8o4L0Q 4mYNNSNy/cNWKe7PjbwqkLAEzrX4mP7kTFj13iWYVyB7h2CnxO3I4UNvu3/6clSCZqRw 88lW+xVhoAPqsCVcelPA/zQ7EcQQSi0RpbrEc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=25zFlmrxX5EZ+WyvrsJmhX6NGKn5iGug1I7sBEu1AUk=; b=Be5FfbIxZZQFVCtxkmICO/+vLqmWX9TMNNpRGgQCZzsPdTC6R/HILRSAZtR2lD9tSi IobH+ux+FJJKxYEHyO4y9ILAH11ArGsDgLrUmXlSMt/emSGQa23aptY6y4hXrqu9jhuD KtQIOZ1KcJPjFXcS2twv/0FDtc/uk8QpQobqR83RIuFaDvsZgEh1DFvhVVg5Vsw+OgkY CwTbacmRAL8ZyAbKC1qS6hsTRuOPYjjjRO/eNCeynOvUoHQ7CdHfBOJxvmgia6oHKRIR nnxWQ+6+AFfNYHmcJZBYZQZ9OPWSAxJYjNQ362xz+ulCM/sNfurvlBlTjGftrunyExQ9 UCAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYmDiYHzFH3ur1P9YPwft4CRRHbTtS7bxb6dF7EFXhRWf+asjQi jlZuPR2o42qvCa2h56ouIXjHb+M5AUIJEAa0U+izBw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VwUrWqr0kCkFnQk1KxqEm9d/ALkVM6BiPwjKwezqQFOA730BtL3MYOvPPGH+Yq+UFq63AZ6SwX84s1PACVMy8= X-Received: by 2002:a24:7ac8:: with SMTP id a191mr582203itc.176.1543476022722; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:20:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181128171725.GJ5701@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20181128171725.GJ5701@mcvoy.com> From: Kevin Bowling Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 00:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] stories X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Amateur historian perspective on what supported this, not sure how recruiting and day to day worked hopefully first parties can teach us. * Military Industrial Complex promoted projects of grandeur in large industrials like Bell that are probably beyond comprehension of most recent generations (Dew line https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSSrPCE0smo, SAC-NORAD, SAGE, AUTOVON, Telstar, etc) * Subscriber base of general public telecom had immense scale and reliability requirements that supported both rapid R&D and engineering/operations progress * Power of monopoly (see Peter Thiel's Zero to One book) I think in light of scale and difficulty of all the work going on in physics, electronics manufacturing/scaling, optics, RF etc the computing work was relatively small in scope to administrators. Why would you not create an OS or microprocessor in such an environment? I have some good books on this to recommend: * The Idea Factory - most recent and popular * A History of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - 6 volumes on different topics that show a pretty insane progression over 100 years, not sure any other company had endured that much change There are some organizations that are vaguely like that today like IBM Research, SRI, Riken. There used to be more like Xerox PARC. I do wonder if things like twitter and facebook have in effect dumbed down the population through increased distraction and reduced attention span. I believe there are some studies on the later. As far as market forces, lots of smart people are working at stupid companies like Facebook and Google these days. So people are less effectively organized and working on less interesting things with less attention span. Regards, Kevin On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > Ken's story got me thinking about stuff I would still like to learn > and his comment about "when I got to Bell Labs"... made me wonder > how did Ken, Dennis, Brian, Joe and the rest of the crew make their > way to Bell Labs? > > When I was just starting out, Sun was sort of the Bell Labs of the > time (not that Sun was the same as Bell Labs but it was sort of > the center of the Unix universe in my mind). So I wanted to go > there and had to work at it a bit but I got there. > > Was Bell Labs in the 60's like that? If you were a geek was that > the place to go? I was born in '62 so I don't have any memory of > how well known the Labs were back then. > > So how was it that so many smart - and somewhat like minded it seems - > people end up there? > > --lm