From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a3cd15e1 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 00:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0FD589B8A3; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:11:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B609B8A1; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:11:23 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="key not found in DNS" (0-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kev009.com header.i=@kev009.com header.b="dMLUptze"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C26EE9B8A1; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:11:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-it1-f170.google.com (mail-it1-f170.google.com [209.85.166.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EA319B8A0 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:11:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-it1-f170.google.com with SMTP id m62so10510079ith.5 for ; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:11:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4weLUM5eb4/id3F2JkT8dXZPe86W1+qjAd8iVOKjZt8=; b=dMLUptzeKLixor6fqkgQv0Am0mPAKzb0AnU28HFhKG6pc/4T+mbsqNcGqsNSb0rWaD T7Clfzt7QWBFCW7QLOrs+o1D01h2VhHvkBa91yq1ALF5Lrd/CeH9DYRIXblTF2hbdRPd lzsRWD5UV3y5pJL5QSKQs0TrshWQU8chhF+/g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4weLUM5eb4/id3F2JkT8dXZPe86W1+qjAd8iVOKjZt8=; b=trdfjKefQ6GO6EUIAH5hQPnWwIeqctGqz/+jPqo1Zn04hLYIbUAgGGJ8kfOzh5t++v HwUR3VzvnES7IkA5wyp3t0jGqZI23t1JPOqgn9j6zhKbhcv8izgH7BWufCJRFa4s5ZZJ 8bMpzLLv111ONAG1UrMGsuEWzo7AiLDcjOi/IzQmlYVIMoAYGryqwZaclkUrPLfTkUL4 AmWUaEmvFfUdVIwvKqI6HaG+qVs/fA3haIcuZryNmsDCDbgNxOidljO3uGLBE68ALvOV WI7ipMTP8NQNtJy4i/H7CJRkxxHGh0tz3HeynI3S4adK0Y4GKJ7zBTAHihWUl8LrfFNJ qf3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYZ+rq/fBYpFXOeNE25rTwFSLjdm5/N4wjrTkBYGRf74TvYSkY6 p6zV8N5bflf8THRCLdPjbpz52qtt2i6spYBteU2Ay6UDGX0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IabuIto+Ow5Yh/oNlbCnmFYhP+h349W30X/Jk5cDt1yKXd4TYwc8Acz7dLLtfUP1qN8GUHG3i7Uzc8FYrOImqQ= X-Received: by 2002:a24:7ac8:: with SMTP id a191mr3659443itc.176.1549498280671; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:11:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190207000255.E1F1318C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190207000255.E1F1318C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Kevin Bowling Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 17:11:08 -0700 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] OSI stack (Was: Posters) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 5:03 PM Noel Chiappa wrote: > > > From: Kevin Bowling > > > Seems like a case of winners write the history books. > > Hey, I'm just trying to pass on my best understanding as I saw it at the time, > and in retrospect. If you're not interested, I'm happy to stop. There's nothing personal. It just doesn't mesh with what I understand from non-UNIX first party sources in some mainframe, telco, and networking books. If I'm wrong I'll gladly update my opinion. I wasn't there. I try to incorporate other sources outside UNIX into my readings on computer history. Maybe I see connections where there were none, or they really were just parallel universes that didn't influence each other. > > There were corporate and public access networks long before TCP was set > > in stone as a dominant protocol. > > Sure, there were lots of alternatives (BITNET, HEPNET, SPAN, CSNET, along with > commercial systems like TYMNET and TELENET, along with a host of others whose > names now escape me). And that's just the US; Europe had an alphabet soup of its > own. > > But _very_ early on (1 Jan 1983), DARPA made all their fundees (which included > all the top CS departments across the US) convert to TCP/IP. (NCP was turned > off on the ARPANET,and everyone was forced to switch over, or get off the > network.) A couple of other things went for TCP/IP too (e.g. NSF's > super-computer network). A Federal ad hoc inter-departmental committee called > the FRICC moved others (e.g. NASA and DoE) in the direction of TCP/IP, > too. > > That's what created the large user community that eventually drove all the > others out of business. (Metcalfe's Law.) Is it fair to say most of the non-gov systems were UNIX during the next handful of years? I am asking for clarification, not a leading question. Regards, Kevin