From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 28dd6d0a for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:41:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 706639BD6B; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:41:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0222B9BD14; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:41:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="key not found in DNS" (0-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kev009.com header.i=@kev009.com header.b="gklE+fZG"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 911E39BD14; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:41:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-f176.google.com (mail-il1-f176.google.com [209.85.166.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0DAF9BD0F for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:41:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-f176.google.com with SMTP id x5so6175343ila.6 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:41:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9TFC+t5FUhlMeqCob/k9FbkVEi50Uc93WhX4M5Wm/vA=; b=gklE+fZGT9hCS60quo0wY2hcsOb/Y2fTVZhmB5fUxqcwWQALBxiwzn2QFrI+McdxVj nbeMFXhaqiDPVSl3s8oHpsHeYcilzQM0Ee00xXW26tXfbL1BhjrHpoeI/7uc6IdIdWdD SooVRgKNKPr6QFUJY1Zz5HF+Mz/twyc2cukPs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9TFC+t5FUhlMeqCob/k9FbkVEi50Uc93WhX4M5Wm/vA=; b=lofHk4CIt07dx0qf+361KoXrGMhTX2aHJSNsJHkiQOENyesP4ficJYbWPaKgGDvQ0D 1ZCI/BdeConzGgAyWte6WOmFJf/h7JiWKaoamPCaWOqemlMLY36l60MCWHov9N7rpb6J GRmw7evUtj6ukfdnmNfz5hH3dMyQTbLMOLesQrxl2Y24ax0kpljn3xpzC3A/7sYBNUTU eUU17zE4NZnxKnjcnHun6tVlNX0lID9WOJJyLRlvbLtWccSyVla/W4QgS1PspxiIWrwt bQ0XFK0c0mMr+p51bvz+GrBlv9OWPbn+/CUtIsMXShsfTh/AHu+XhO8RZVNE9iE1Zle+ x9rQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSOVhRHWJ+RIrozmZeGKBu7vJ+/Zzd2U15bKdYg3YobgPrSskQ gM5wqeNYqZ30z2MCeYJxYgTJS3ymsS7CbVaxOf6D5g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyxO0nqgjN1f7taPy1p/lh3r/CqNqjgI1GqkEsZ/ZB8l6RiQ/EfSidHHnasfrsTQwHWxZirc3MU9T9vQngKsNI= X-Received: by 2002:a92:3a02:: with SMTP id h2mr12377168ila.236.1578861664252; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:41:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202001121343.00CDhYHK132101@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <202001122034.00CKYQ39571239@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: <202001122034.00CKYQ39571239@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Kevin Bowling Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:40:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jon Steinhart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Tech Sq elevator (Was: screen editors) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I honestly can't tell if this is genius level snark :) in case you're sincere we generally go to great lengths to build up data types and structures (in C lingo) when programming only to tear those useful attributes off often at inopportune times. Basically type systems/type safety have been too expensive or too difficult to use through history. Think of sitting at an SQL prompt as a counterpoint. You can pretty easily get at the underlying representation and relationships of the data and the output is just a side effect. Not saying SQL is the ultimate answer, just that most people have a bit of experience with it and UNIX so can mentally compare the two for themselves and see the pros and cons to preserving the underlying representations. Regards, Kevin On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 1:34 PM Jon Steinhart wrote: > > Kevin Bowling writes: > > This is kind of illustrative of the '60s acid trip that perpetuates in > > programming "Everything's a string maaaaan". The output is seen as > > truth because the representation is for some reason too hard to get at > > or too hard to cascade through the system. > > > > There's a total comedy of work going on in the unix way of a wc > > pipeline versus calling a length function on a list. Nonetheless, the > > unix pipeline was and is often magnitude easier for a single user to > > get at. This kind of thing is amusing and endearing to me about our > > profession in modern day. > > > > Regards, > > Kevin > > Can you please elaborate? I read your post, and while I can see that it > contains English words I can't make any sense out of what you said. > > Thanks, > Jon