From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,URIBL_SBL,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id db2bacb6 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:43:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 131489C136; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 06:43:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22A093D9E; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 06:42:51 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="key not found in DNS" (0-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kev009.com header.i=@kev009.com header.b="AFs2nyKi"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E8B1293D9E; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 06:42:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f50.google.com (mail-io1-f50.google.com [209.85.166.50]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F72C93D24 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 06:42:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f50.google.com with SMTP id s17so24181332iol.12 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:42:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Im4hOYfQooLJ2635m95s0vTA+JkH4o9RzXMBTqDs0G8=; b=AFs2nyKibIE/a48QO3vEPz6Ssx95fH96WZON7L71bNH6TJd9TB/AnyEq6l/0Rx6CQG +89Ee9V/VkuyGcQv4YOJzf7P5q3arkKmoxJRDkUuVslnpwWWxNCl222loXWdvkvSDWeV 7iXIWeWQa+VXEu0paPI3Qs0sq40cZV76ArD3I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Im4hOYfQooLJ2635m95s0vTA+JkH4o9RzXMBTqDs0G8=; b=sVgeWlvWDVRbjomrtOHbgH2mHsSA1dUZcKG3jewgrGIwKFX0cVh83LNNUrsCaMEtBd lTbCcoUzg7Csjc1jZhO/F5ey6WLx+B+JyLWuaQs/vlbGYJvp9f5/d4KPuXEDAqTPS6CL EC0GoEQDstPl4+bQgFSsnJjG5PZ7vqGaRK7ucdhKlzrBBJxTsC0mJubc/MsFdApTi8ym LI4GK3f5y92cD5E+Yuu+yuMfkorsUdDVL5CVTK4iUz9Deg1Fn303Kzp9ejRZfZ7p6J0l OscHwrwa4chINr2HgVrxpUK/keuIdsatsI+zr00ec+zGYzD5x55FjCuuiaa2IYYCJ4f3 1iuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWFbKHuH/fxK7RJiocqH8yCDr38iL26LQQqAbEiuMzxnhGkDM5D hxXq3AAfDW4IaXoLthEw6A/MVqeDvuhbDUBmVJ2i6Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwbxDZlqhcAyiOn6nkArWUIDSyZH6MZu3EQ6vqIw9mF+1meBmjwULM6x95w38Rl9zZQoF190CFDLcG9vFqzDJc= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3b57:: with SMTP id i84mr23798157ioa.85.1572986568617; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:42:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:42:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8c74a05969f79ff" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Amdahl UTS, AIX/370, AIX/ESA X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000a8c74a05969f79ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clem, I am very curious about this UNIX for OS/400 work it sounds either different or much earlier than what I am familiar with. I am familiar with the PASE environment that shipped around OS/400 V4R4 (1999?). After AS/400s started running PowerPCish CPUs (there is a bit of history there I won't dive into) PASE was like WINE for Linux.. same CPU arch, do some library and linker/loader tricks to hoist a different (AIX 4.3 first) environment within OS/400s understanding of the universe. A year or so later, some very bright group figured to use the OS/400's Single Level Store as the device model/device virtualization for the CPU virtualization (LPAR) in later POWER CPUs. You could run Linux or OS/400 or AIX this way. That work was then somewhat inverted, and pHyp was born from the OS/400's SILC idea of machine dependent code as a light weight firmware hypervisor in the converging iSeries and pSeries POWER systems.. they switched the device model/device virtualization to AIX called APV or PowerVM. It was nicknamed "Fortress Rochester" for a reason. They did some very nice work. But yeah IBM was running 4 large and extremely different computing businesses in the 1990s and probably some smaller ones too. They were very different but the systems did interoperate pretty well given the stakes. Regards, Kevin On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:10 PM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Christopher Browne > wrote: > >> The dates seem to decently explain the invisibility; introduction in 199= 2 >> > The formal introduction of the PS/2 was April 87 (by the crew of Mash for > the TV ads IIRC). Again, if my memory serves LCC started working on UNIX > for the 370 in the mid'86s, actually before the PS/2 was announced, which > would be announced as AIX/370. ISC had done the original 386 port for > Intel, IBM, and AT&T - but that was for an ISA based systems originally > [Phil Shevrin pulled one of the best sales jobs I ever knew -- he got pai= d > three times for the same basic work]. > > At some point (and I would have to ask someone like Bruce Walker or Greg > Thiel for the better info), the contract got widen AIX to include the PS/= 2 > - a.k.a. create AIX/386. How much of the original ISC work was that buil= d > upon, I never knew. > > LCC worked for a number of years and the two AIX's were available for > customers, probably under a special University license. The formal > introduction was later (and '92 sounds right). But there were sites that > had one or both before that time. I want to say, LCC worked with IBM fo= r > about 8-10 years starting in the mid-80s. BTW: They also did a UNIX port = to > AS/400 (on top of the native OS - similar to Eunice for the VAX or > today's MingWin and Dave Korn's UWIN stuff). I've forgotten the dates o= n > that, I want to say 93/94 time frame. > > Enough time has gone by, I think I can safely tell another story, WRT the > AS/400. When that happened, IBM and LCC had a number oif years under the= ir > bridge and the LCC management team thought we knew how to work with IBM. > Since we had a base IBM contract, we all figured that could be > added/amended to as needed. When the folks from Rochester called asking > about a quote for the AS/400 work, our sales folks trotted out the existi= ng > contract for AIX and figured - ok write a new SOW and we are done. Nope > -- different division/different set of lawyers. Something was said to us > in the form of 'Rochester Won the Baldridge Award.' I remember our CEO > groaning - and saying something like 'Here we go again.' It was then I > realized IBM was N different companies, each competing with each other. > > Clem > =E1=90=A7 > --000000000000a8c74a05969f79ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Clem,

I am very curious abou= t this UNIX for OS/400 work it sounds either different or much earlier than= what I am familiar with.=C2=A0 I am familiar with the PASE environment tha= t shipped around OS/400 V4R4 (1999?).=C2=A0 After AS/400s started running P= owerPCish CPUs (there is a bit of history there I won't dive into) PASE= was like WINE for Linux.. same CPU arch, do some library and linker/loader= tricks to hoist a different (AIX 4.3 first) environment within OS/400s und= erstanding of the universe.=C2=A0 A year or so later, some very bright grou= p figured to use the OS/400's Single Level Store as the device model/de= vice virtualization for the CPU virtualization (LPAR) in later POWER CPUs.= =C2=A0 You could run Linux or OS/400 or AIX this way.=C2=A0 That work was t= hen somewhat inverted, and pHyp was born from the OS/400's SILC idea of= machine dependent code as a light weight firmware hypervisor in the conver= ging iSeries and pSeries POWER systems.. they switched the device model/dev= ice virtualization to AIX called APV or PowerVM.

It was nicknamed "Fortress Rochester" for a reason.=C2=A0 They= did some very nice work.=C2=A0 But yeah IBM was running 4 large and extrem= ely different computing businesses in the 1990s and probably some smaller o= nes too.=C2=A0 They were very different but the systems did interoperate pr= etty well given the stakes.

Regards,
Kevin

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:10 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

<= /div>

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com> wrote:
=
The dates seem to decently explain the invisibility; intro= duction in 1992=C2=A0
The formal introduct= ion of the PS/2 was April 87 (by the crew of Mash for the TV ads IIRC).=C2= =A0 Again, if my memory serves LCC started working on UNIX for the 370 in t= he mid'86s, actually before the PS/2 was announced, which would be anno= unced as AIX/370.=C2=A0 =C2=A0ISC had done the original 386 port for Intel,= IBM, and AT&T - but that was for an ISA based systems originally [Phil= Shevrin pulled one of the best sales jobs I ever knew -- he got paid three= times for the same basic work].

At some point (and I would=C2=A0have to ask someone like Bruce Walker = or Greg Thiel for the better info), the contract got widen AIX to include t= he PS/2 - a.k.a. create AIX/386.=C2=A0 How much of the original ISC work wa= s that build upon, I never knew.=C2=A0

LCC worked for a number of years and the two AIX's=C2=A0were= available for customers, probably under a special University license.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0The formal introduction was later (and '92 sounds right). But= there were sites that had one or both before that time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want= to say, LCC worked with IBM for about 8-10 years starting in the mid-80s. = BTW: They also did a UNIX port to AS/400=C2=A0(on top of the native OS - similar to Eunice for the VAX or today's= MingWin and Dave Korn's UWIN stuff).=C2=A0 =C2=A0I've forgotten th= e dates on that, I want to say 93/94 time frame.

<= /span>
Enough time has gone by, I think I can safely tell ano= ther story, WRT the AS/400.=C2=A0 When that happened, IBM and LCC had a num= ber oif years under their bridge and the LCC management team thought we kne= w how to work with IBM.=C2=A0 Since we had a base IBM contract, we all figu= red that could be added/amended to as needed.=C2=A0 When the folks from Roc= hester called asking about a quote for the AS/400 work, our sales folks tro= tted out the existing contract for AIX and figured - ok write a new SOW and= we are done.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nope -- different division/different set of lawye= rs.=C2=A0 Something was said to us in the form of 'Rochester Won the Ba= ldridge Award.'=C2=A0 =C2=A0I remember our CEO groaning - and saying so= mething like 'Here we go again.'=C2=A0 It was then I realized IBM w= as N different companies, each competing with each other.
=
Clem
3D""=E1=90= =A7
--000000000000a8c74a05969f79ff--