From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28342 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2022 00:59:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Jun 2022 00:59:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202A340C7C; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:58:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com (mail-pl1-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0E0940C6E for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:58:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id q18so6760705pld.13 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:58:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c6q7UlpHdA+Z029QRuwo1E2H7QtJV7tPN3z5jKtNUn8=; b=bfKGgPdAvOa4aMG20Oe5Mgx6K1PONCnlmAquIDH+bBhVn2AswS/QH0sjCfyKgcYZ5I 38Nb9AoGj0SKjxkFUv8YyGNf7cKK29VlB0aBOALOYbk1QlFCMfQRVspgiIj9uzjcIZcJ cucbCXEvDaVPjgqGzTJk5anUOUX49Npl3BoPs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c6q7UlpHdA+Z029QRuwo1E2H7QtJV7tPN3z5jKtNUn8=; b=WfgYiCTPYCxw9Jawlbt0qW14VnEoYXLoQ1jzcy4vAsJDq3LPFcWUFnLalbCUm6x1aq foQuLJFkLc+hJwrLymqbwU0U/H2Rpqhg6QMj/mRg8rofjBkZ+U4085m7m5EITLRf46Pe qU3+4wMwjlojJNnftka/Z9j+fsQGKsXlqAlkwWQ3Sgm+9T31RYwrT2AL3yevYyz64ZX9 gkABe0cbz0h/jmVu3gXcmQe7ps/pqrF7m5GCZhXn/gZnOR8oHD4O7v5vC+Cm9+JkPz/6 jEjDAhfw5/2BieOZavhMmYEDHIrKrdfqJUkvmaKeVqUoy2/UxoMkj72tiXGuZwwcIAZ1 bZyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8bA8JHVdLFmXdfmz2VyUH3rFwWZI+fnMtJG9K9zIBEn1YhpHJh enAMJBXOG8g8kO8BUsIuN2AADAAuRwTobF4mHO7E5zCTPqM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1vae7CpnH+unDjECHumh3iqvCZgPjXQdSkvYo5/votxpuftd237jOSH9VOQb90xBeV+vBqq3qWsQJkGMq2MrBA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:124f:b0:16b:8167:e34e with SMTP id u15-20020a170903124f00b0016b8167e34emr799393plh.52.1656291471026; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:57:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38ED67E4-4D75-47A8-BA44-4A08DF487EC2@planet.nl> <249B533B-E8D4-462C-8A6D-16A198BA055D@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <249B533B-E8D4-462C-8A6D-16A198BA055D@planet.nl> From: Kevin Bowling Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 17:57:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c67ff905e26368d8" Message-ID-Hash: 2WVOJ6IMBUEDHRSF6UNRVIKS3RBJGAQN X-Message-ID-Hash: 2WVOJ6IMBUEDHRSF6UNRVIKS3RBJGAQN X-MailFrom: kevin.bowling@kev009.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: forgotten versions List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000c67ff905e26368d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 1:46 PM Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > > > On 25 Jun 2022, at 21:16, Anthony Martin wrote: > > > > The following papers are a good overview of Datakit and its > > predecessors. > > > > A. Fraser, "Towards a Universal Data Transport System," in IEEE > > Journal on Selected Areas in Communications, vol. 1, no. 5, pp. > > 803-816, November 1983, doi: 10.1109/JSAC.1983.1145998. > > > > A. G. Fraser, "Early experiments with asynchronous time division > > networks," in IEEE Network, vol. 7, no. 1, pp. 12-26, Jan. 1993, > > doi:10.1109/65.193084. > > > > The latter mentions Plan 9 but only in passing. > > Yes, those are great papers - unfortunately behind a paywall. > > There is a great 1994 video on Youtube by Sandy Fraser himself that more > or less follows the 1993 paper: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DojRtJ1U6Qzw > Superb. The story of an invention told through metaphors and mistakes. > As Doug mentioned on this list, Sandy Fraser passed away earlier this > month. > I was unfamiliar with Sandy prior to this thread. > In the past years I=E2=80=99ve worked on understanding (early) Datakit an= d Sandy > Fraser and his wife were most kind with assistance looking for papers. I= =E2=80=99ve > also benefitted from the input of Bill Marshall and of course Doug McIlro= y. > I=E2=80=99ll share my summary of Research Datakit in a separate post. > > Paul > > > Paul Ruizendaal once said: > >> Probably you will see echoes of this in early Plan9 network code, but = I > have not studied that. > > > > As someone how has studied Plan 9 extensively, though with no insider > > knowledge, it's definitely noticeable. > > > > "In the aftermath, perhaps the most valuable effect of dealing with > > Datakit was to encourage the generalized and flexible approach to > > networking begun in 8th edition Unix that is carried forward into Plan > > 9." - dmr (2004) > > > > Cheers, > > Anthony > > --000000000000c67ff905e26368d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 1:46 PM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:

> On 25 Jun 2022, at 21:16, Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:
>
> The following papers are a good overview of Datakit and its
> predecessors.
>
> A. Fraser, "Towards a Universal Data Transport System," in I= EEE
> Journal on Selected Areas in Communications, vol. 1, no. 5, pp.
> 803-816, November 1983, doi: 10.1109/JSAC.1983.1145998.
>
> A. G. Fraser, "Early experiments with asynchronous time division<= br> > networks," in IEEE Network, vol. 7, no. 1, pp. 12-26, Jan. 1993,<= br> > doi:10.1109/65.193084.
>
> The latter mentions Plan 9 but only in passing.

Yes, those are great papers - unfortunately behind a paywall.

There is a great 1994 video on Youtube by Sandy Fraser himself that more or= less follows the 1993 paper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DojRtJ1U6Qzw

Superb.=C2=A0 Th= e story of an invention told through metaphors and mistakes.


As Doug mentioned on this list, Sandy Fraser passed away earlier this month= .

I was unfamiliar= with Sandy prior to this thread.


In the past years I=E2=80=99ve worked on understanding (early) Datakit and = Sandy Fraser and his wife were most kind with assistance looking for papers= . I=E2=80=99ve also benefitted from the input of Bill Marshall and of cours= e Doug McIlroy. I=E2=80=99ll share my summary of Research Datakit in a sepa= rate post.

Paul

> Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> once said:
>> Probably you will see echoes of this in early Plan9 network code, = but I have not studied that.
>
> As someone how has studied Plan 9 extensively, though with no insider<= br> > knowledge, it's definitely noticeable.
>
> "In the aftermath, perhaps the most valuable effect of dealing wi= th
> Datakit was to encourage the generalized and flexible approach to
> networking begun in 8th edition Unix that is carried forward into Plan=
> 9." - dmr (2004)
>
> Cheers,
>=C2=A0 Anthony

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