* [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? @ 2022-02-04 17:01 Will Senn 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito 2022-05-13 4:01 ` Kevin Bowling 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Will Senn @ 2022-02-04 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1078 bytes --] Today I bit the bullet and dropped my many articles and electronic documents related to my technical explorations into Zotero. I was tired of constantly having to remember where the documents were located and I wanted to be able to curate them better (I tried git for a while, back when, but I'm not a fan of non-text data in my repos, and it wasn't really much better than the base file system approach). I've been using Zotero for years now, for academic works, but not for technical works unrelated to my research. I realized the man-years of effort to clean up the entries that I had created in about 30-40 seconds of exciting drag and drop, just about the time I deleted them from their original locations. I think the work will pay off in due time, but we'll see. Then I thought, surely, I'm not the first person to have had this problem... it occurred to me that y'all must have faced this very problem, a few years in, back in the late 70's, early 80's. That is, document management. What did you do, variously, considering both text and non-text? Will [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1526 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 17:01 [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? Will Senn @ 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito 2022-02-04 17:43 ` Adam Thornton 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan 2022-05-13 4:01 ` Kevin Bowling 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Seth J. Morabito @ 2022-02-04 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> writes: > Then I thought, surely, I'm not the first person to have had this > problem... it occurred to me that y'all must have faced this very > problem, a few years in, back in the late 70's, early 80's. That is, > document management. What did you do, variously, considering both text > and non-text? I'm sure the vast majority of document management was in real folders in real filing cabinets. We take our vast stores of electronic documents for granted these days, but it's shockingly recent in computing terms! Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) > Will -Seth -- Seth Morabito web@loomcom.com Poulsbo, WA, USA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito @ 2022-02-04 17:43 ` Adam Thornton 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Adam Thornton @ 2022-02-04 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 368 bytes --] Don Lancaster's "Tearing" method of understanding Apple II assembly programs, but, really, generalizable to anything, is, forty years later, *still* magnificent. https://www.tinaja.com/ebooks/tearing_rework.pdf On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:40 AM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: > > Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 795 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito 2022-02-04 17:43 ` Adam Thornton @ 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan 2022-05-13 1:09 ` Michael Parson 2022-05-13 2:41 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2022-02-04 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Seth J. Morabito; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 649 bytes --] On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:39 PM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) > I mark up a printout with scribbles ("hourglasses and arrows and a documentation resource for each one, sayin' what they was about, to be used in evidence against us"[*]) and then re-transcribe them into the original electronic doc. I wish I had a better approach that wasn't so environmentally destructive, but I just don't notice errors as easily when they're just on the screen. [*] See < https://web.archive.org/web/20210321003206/http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan/alice_flame.txt>. With feeling. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1550 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan @ 2022-05-13 1:09 ` Michael Parson 2022-05-13 1:52 ` George Michaelson 2022-05-13 2:41 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Michael Parson @ 2022-05-13 1:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: TUHS main list On Fri, 4 Feb 2022, John Cowan wrote: > On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:39 PM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: > > Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) >> > > I mark up a printout with scribbles ("hourglasses and arrows and a > documentation resource for each one, sayin' what they was about, to be used > in evidence against us"[*]) and then re-transcribe them into the original > electronic doc. I wish I had a better approach that wasn't so > environmentally destructive, but I just don't notice errors as easily when > they're just on the screen. Have you looked into e-ink tablets? The reMarkable series seems to be pretty popular. I recently got a Boox Nova Air e-ink tablet, works great as an e-reader, but it also has a pretty decent PDF editor built in that lets you scribble all over PDF docs like they're paper. -- Michael Parson Pflugerville, TX ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-05-13 1:09 ` Michael Parson @ 2022-05-13 1:52 ` George Michaelson 2022-05-13 2:04 ` Michael Parson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: George Michaelson @ 2022-05-13 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Parson; +Cc: TUHS main list heading off-piste, the Boox series are also worth looking at. Android, anything android can do, a boox will do slowly in eInk. their version of the reMarkable markup thing may not be as "good" but its the alternate, and alternate pricepoint. when I think about the BSD manuals, bound with steel rods, in a metal construct welded to the desk at the back of the lab. Wonderful source of knowledge. Or.. the VMS fiche set, and the reader. you want to fix this problem? ok, if you learn Bliss32, then everything is in this stack of blue-grey plastic, if your eyes are good enough. No peeking. I think the experiential aspects of 2D thinking with pens, on paper are lost online. I totally don't engage with "visualisations" beyond the very very good. It is very easy to avoid having to say why by falling back on "my eyes aren't good" or "I don't understand this" but in truth, I dont LIKE them. I like paper, and I miss fanfold printout. Plus. I liked taking the boxes of it to kindergarden and handing them over for the kids to write on. On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 11:33 AM Michael Parson <mparson@bl.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Feb 2022, John Cowan wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:39 PM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: > > > > Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) > >> > > > > I mark up a printout with scribbles ("hourglasses and arrows and a > > documentation resource for each one, sayin' what they was about, to be used > > in evidence against us"[*]) and then re-transcribe them into the original > > electronic doc. I wish I had a better approach that wasn't so > > environmentally destructive, but I just don't notice errors as easily when > > they're just on the screen. > > Have you looked into e-ink tablets? The reMarkable series seems to be > pretty popular. I recently got a Boox Nova Air e-ink tablet, works > great as an e-reader, but it also has a pretty decent PDF editor built > in that lets you scribble all over PDF docs like they're paper. > > -- > Michael Parson > Pflugerville, TX ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-05-13 1:52 ` George Michaelson @ 2022-05-13 2:04 ` Michael Parson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Michael Parson @ 2022-05-13 2:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: TUHS main list On Fri, 13 May 2022, George Michaelson wrote: > heading off-piste, the Boox series are also worth looking at. Android, > anything android can do, a boox will do slowly in eInk. their version > of the reMarkable markup thing may not be as "good" but its the > alternate, and alternate pricepoint. I love my Boox Nova Air. I carry with me just about everywhere. I can read the book I'm currently reading, plus I also scribble notes and doodles in the note app. I've doodled ideas for things I later work up in FreeCAD for 3D printing. If my focus was more on the note taking and drawing, I'd have gone for the bigger, closer to sheet-of-paper sized devices, but I primarily wanted an e-ink e-reader that could also do other things. So far, I've been very impressed with the other things it could do. I've been a fan of e-ink displays for a long time. I really wish someone would make a reasonbly priced 20+ inch e-ink monitor. Most of the stuff I deal with is in text, and working with text on an e-ink display would be so much easier on the eyes. I only mentioned the reMarkable because it seems to be one of the popular ones out there, or maybe they just have better marketing. I think my wife said that one of the women she works with at her design firm has a reMarkable and loves it. > when I think about the BSD manuals, bound with steel rods, in a metal > construct welded to the desk at the back of the lab. Wonderful source > of knowledge. Or.. the VMS fiche set, and the reader. you want to fix > this problem? ok, if you learn Bliss32, then everything is in this > stack of blue-grey plastic, if your eyes are good enough. No peeking. > > I think the experiential aspects of 2D thinking with pens, on paper > are lost online. I totally don't engage with "visualisations" beyond > the very very good. It is very easy to avoid having to say why by > falling back on "my eyes aren't good" or "I don't understand this" but > in truth, I dont LIKE them. I like paper, and I miss fanfold printout. > Plus. I liked taking the boxes of it to kindergarden and handing them > over for the kids to write on. I miss fan-fold paper too... I pretty much quit printing out program listings when I quit having tractor-fed printers. It just wasn't the same. Also, no more multi-page big-text banners. :) -- Michael Parson Pflugerville, TX > On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 11:33 AM Michael Parson <mparson@bl.org> wrote: >> On Fri, 4 Feb 2022, John Cowan wrote: >>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:39 PM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: >>> >>> Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) >>>> >>> >>> I mark up a printout with scribbles ("hourglasses and arrows and a >>> documentation resource for each one, sayin' what they was about, to be used >>> in evidence against us"[*]) and then re-transcribe them into the original >>> electronic doc. I wish I had a better approach that wasn't so >>> environmentally destructive, but I just don't notice errors as easily when >>> they're just on the screen. >> >> Have you looked into e-ink tablets? The reMarkable series seems to be >> pretty popular. I recently got a Boox Nova Air e-ink tablet, works >> great as an e-reader, but it also has a pretty decent PDF editor built >> in that lets you scribble all over PDF docs like they're paper. >> >> -- >> Michael Parson >> Pflugerville, TX > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan 2022-05-13 1:09 ` Michael Parson @ 2022-05-13 2:41 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2022-05-13 2:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: TUHS main list On Feb 4, 2022, at 12:51 PM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:39 PM Seth J. Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: > > Besides, it's fun to scribble notes all over printouts and Xeroxes :^) > > I mark up a printout with scribbles ("hourglasses and arrows and a documentation resource for each one, sayin' what they was about, to be used in evidence against us"[*]) and then re-transcribe them into the original electronic doc. I wish I had a better approach that wasn't so environmentally destructive, but I just don't notice errors as easily when they're just on the screen. > > [*] See <https://web.archive.org/web/20210321003206/http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan/alice_flame.txt>. With feeling. There are iPad apps such as CollaNote (free) & GoodNotes ($) which allow you to write/scribble/doodle with an Apple Pencil. Note the same experience but there are some other benefits. You can zoom in to write small, easy ink color change, moving portions of written text, OCR, search, hyperlinks, digital planners, synchronized audio (with writing) etc. You can paste in pictures, videos, pdf and so on. And now you can easily scribble/highlight on any PDF etc. For some things I still prefer computation notebooks with 4x4 Quad light green paper but increasingly I am relying on the iADHD device! In any case I still prefer writing as opposed to typing when {t,m}aking notes and for design notes or sketching new ideas. The writing experience on the ipad is not great even with a paperLike(TM) plastic screen protector But I can live with that. In contrast the Unix GUI experience is falling further and further behind. Wish it weren't so. I haven't used any e-ink device as they are expensive and they seem limited in other ways compared to the iPad. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-02-04 17:01 [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? Will Senn 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito @ 2022-05-13 4:01 ` Kevin Bowling 2022-05-13 4:08 ` Adam Thornton 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Kevin Bowling @ 2022-05-13 4:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Will Senn; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1208 bytes --] On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:02 AM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: > Today I bit the bullet and dropped my many articles and electronic > documents related to my technical explorations into Zotero. I was tired of > constantly having to remember where the documents were located and I wanted > to be able to curate them better (I tried git for a while, back when, but > I'm not a fan of non-text data in my repos, and it wasn't really much > better than the base file system approach). I've been using Zotero for > years now, for academic works, but not for technical works unrelated to my > research. I realized the man-years of effort to clean up the entries that I > had created in about 30-40 seconds of exciting drag and drop, just about > the time I deleted them from their original locations. I think the work > will pay off in due time, but we'll see. > > Then I thought, surely, I'm not the first person to have had this > problem... it occurred to me that y'all must have faced this very problem, > a few years in, back in the late 70's, early 80's. That is, document > management. What did you do, variously, considering both text and non-text? > > Emacs org-mode comes to mind > Will > > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2583 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? 2022-05-13 4:01 ` Kevin Bowling @ 2022-05-13 4:08 ` Adam Thornton 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Adam Thornton @ 2022-05-13 4:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kevin Bowling; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1487 bytes --] > On May 12, 2022, at 9:01 PM, Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:02 AM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com <mailto:will.senn@gmail.com>> wrote: > Today I bit the bullet and dropped my many articles and electronic documents related to my technical explorations into Zotero. I was tired of constantly having to remember where the documents were located and I wanted to be able to curate them better (I tried git for a while, back when, but I'm not a fan of non-text data in my repos, and it wasn't really much better than the base file system approach). I've been using Zotero for years now, for academic works, but not for technical works unrelated to my research. I realized the man-years of effort to clean up the entries that I had created in about 30-40 seconds of exciting drag and drop, just about the time I deleted them from their original locations. I think the work will pay off in due time, but we'll see. > > Then I thought, surely, I'm not the first person to have had this problem... it occurred to me that y'all must have faced this very problem, a few years in, back in the late 70's, early 80's. That is, document management. What did you do, variously, considering both text and non-text? > > > Emacs org-mode comes to mind And if you happen to need presentations.... https://github.com/yjwen/org-reveal That's right: Javascript slide deck directly from org-mode. Better than sliced bread. Adam [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3132 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-05-13 4:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2022-02-04 17:01 [TUHS] Document management in Unix, back in the day? Will Senn 2022-02-04 17:35 ` Seth J. Morabito 2022-02-04 17:43 ` Adam Thornton 2022-02-04 20:51 ` John Cowan 2022-05-13 1:09 ` Michael Parson 2022-05-13 1:52 ` George Michaelson 2022-05-13 2:04 ` Michael Parson 2022-05-13 2:41 ` Bakul Shah 2022-05-13 4:01 ` Kevin Bowling 2022-05-13 4:08 ` Adam Thornton
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