From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00FE25987 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:18:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8A8432B3; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 22:18:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com (mail-ua1-x92a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C30443A59 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 22:18:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7eb7f34f36dso1373794241.1 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 05:18:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dartmouth.edu; s=google1; t=1714220317; x=1714825117; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=pkDvtYpuxecOQSGh3chyM6Cajzb0Qm4xplKJL8hyygc=; b=yYZoDo/14RxY6jgWhKUHeXDywFyzcRlHZvkruGPHFuCnV9OOMYcL00C1CgdkCeu2bz /woOwqaL1ckeQ9VculEhF1eB2pixqV/9IS7wOmKjqZIG0zZGhSW/yaZc6/OpB3YOqt5I M2jcwao/wL+s9ayIr5+WjxkaHk1jijopne292wOLyjfP1MZghzBU7agiPpyhwuBQH+Ys aOsG8mVtkzEYjumeeLwOrmH794bFeZK7Cln+Ku/4AM7ueC/GOuX123+7swtn6EV9SKxO yfu6qP6fK2bTDCGgT744ZEX4wx9cIMQ0Mh47p9g+1Pme5B/VEJHFsF5OTjQuXxKzcy9P giug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1714220317; x=1714825117; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=pkDvtYpuxecOQSGh3chyM6Cajzb0Qm4xplKJL8hyygc=; b=CgWyqR0qK31KLFctK+Ioi0QgMjScg2a+y7HqQ2tfCXOehOMelv9joujFGRGbwF8OpY 6Np7hBatRyBal/AXImB6tNk7uLpP68jpaWjIPwIhk9nh4kN92ycfzymzQECRJ7FU40Ya Q8pIj7QRgs8m02KmTbnKsQZCsq2zK5nDMxANKMzfDDtDuf12Aiy+XRjZBBGv50twibGg xhUjLvDZo6ljVUwO7ppKF0PBBg5GnP1cDJMrbrs/2BIceytUEIfy+xJ7u+o7Gszt1xn4 9sVzD4D5wxpmNmDutzQUqK1DDUgnlv5NSCIFrt8NqRL5gLBA3BnSgHGoMQg7zhluBpTu 5gbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxaXiE9sf5Maagw+cTaEdq8dfA59aM/yli6VldLLR83mmSXg+vk LJ+se5TRIGcD612noYGLvc4yIPhC5xnEtUycIC3hMHFmeLzpori6vcmoqGVLj79mmxtb/dpP2wf zJ8u98cxEW3R8RAcAye9BEBV0JuSyc3KIhBPaNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEKwnlVi3klKrkoF6+NQDfHeoks1XCc9r/r2x3QJjCakyhjop1TYgYA1QgY9hPjUSiXI0EwJObac8YS1m8pElM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:4613:b0:47b:79e5:24c3 with SMTP id js19-20020a056102461300b0047b79e524c3mr5054873vsb.31.1714220316895; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 05:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3FEB2B5C-B791-4FD3-AA69-A839251FD282@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: <3FEB2B5C-B791-4FD3-AA69-A839251FD282@canb.auug.org.au> From: Douglas McIlroy Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:18:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: steve jenkin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000e53aa061713050f" Message-ID-Hash: ADAXRM6RNDTSHTBAPNONMNBZHJ2EIHBM X-Message-ID-Hash: ADAXRM6RNDTSHTBAPNONMNBZHJ2EIHBM X-MailFrom: douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS , Computer Old Farts Followers X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [ off topic ] History of US computing leading to 1968 NATO Conference on Software Engineering List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000e53aa061713050f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, Your list coincides well with my recollection. A couple of sidelights: MIT had one computer course when I arrived there in 1954. It was more about arithmetic than programming. Desk calculators were used in numerical analysis classes. Philco's release of a transistorized competitor to IBM's 700 series caused IBM to bring the 7090 out of the back room and drop the newly introduced 709. This was surely not a planned business decision. IBM was able to do that quickly thanks to its work on the 7030 (Stretch) supercomputer for national-defense labs. Purdue's computer-science department was founded in 1962. That trickle became a torrent by 1964-5, but as late as 1977 Fred Brooks still opined that any calling with science in its name was not a science, witness Christian Science, mortuary science and cosmetic science. ------------------------------------------- Parochial event: Bell Labs split computer science from mathematics in 1967. Rise of the quicksort fallacy. Tony Hoare's publication in 1961 made algorithms a hip topic. Generations of students since have been led to believe that quicksort is fit for general use, although it is almost always programmed with deterministic pivot selection, while Tony specified random selection. Deterministic selection requires one to believe that data sets are random, not the algorithm. Maybe Fred Brooks was right. On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 1:20=E2=80=AFAM steve jenkin wrote: > Sorry for the dual list post, I don=E2=80=99t who monitors COFF, the prop= er place > for this. > > There may a good timeline of the early decades of Computer Science and > it=E2=80=99s evolution at Universities in some countries, but I=E2=80=99m= missing it. > > Doug McIlroy lived through all this, I hope he can fill in important gaps > in my little timeline. > > It seems from the 1967 letter, defining the field was part of the > zeitgeist leading up to the NATO conference. > > 1949 ACM founded > 1958 First =E2=80=98freshman=E2=80=99 computer course in USA, = Perlis @ CMU > > 1960 IBM 1400 - affordable & =E2=80=98reliable=E2=80=99 transi= storised > computers arrived > 1965 MIT / Bell / General Electric begin Multics project. > CMU establishes Computer Sciences Dept. > 1967 =E2=80=9CWhat is Computer Science=E2=80=9D letter by Newe= ll, Perlis, Simon > 1968 =E2=80=9CSoftware Crisis=E2=80=9D and 1st NATO Conference > 1969 Bell Labs withdraws from Multics > 1970 GE's sells computer business, including Multics, to > Honeywell > 1970 PDP-11/20 released > 1974 Unix issue of CACM > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The arrival of transistorised computers - cheaper, more reliable, smaller > & faster - was a trigger for the accelerated uptake of computers. > > The IBM 1400-series was offered for sale in 1960, becoming the first > (large?) computer to sell 10,000 units - a marker of both effective > marketing & sales and attractive pricing. > > The 360-series, IBM=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cbet the company=E2=80=9D machine, = was in full development > when the 1400 was released. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Attached is a text file, a reformatted version of a 1967 letter to > =E2=80=99Science=E2=80=99 by Allen Newell, Alan J. Perlis, and Herbert A.= Simon: > > "What is computer science?=E2=80=9D > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > A 1978 masters thesis on Early Australian Computers (back to 1950=E2=80= =99s, > mainly 1960=E2=80=99s) cites a 17 June 1960 CSIRO report estimating > 1,000 computers in the US and 100 in the UK. With no estimate mentioned > for Western Europe. > > The thesis has a long discussion of what to count as a (digital) > =E2=80=98computer=E2=80=99 - > sources used different definitions, resulting in very different > numbers, > making it difficult to reconcile early estimates, especially > across continents & countries. > > Reverse estimating to 1960 from the =E2=80=9C10,000=E2=80=9D NATO estimat= e of 1968, with a > 1- or 2-year doubling time, > gives a range of 200-1,000, including the =E2=80=9C100=E2=80=9D in the UK= . > > Licklider and later directors of ARPA=E2=80=99s IPTO threw millions into = Computing > research in the 1960=E2=80=99s, funding research and University groups di= rectly. > [ UCB had many projects/groups funded, including the CSRG creating BSD & > TCP/IP stack & tools ] > > Obviously there was more to the =E2=80=9CBoth sides of the Atlantic=E2=80= =9D argument of > E.W. Dijkstra and Alan Kay - funding and numbers of installations was ver= y > different. > > The USA had a substantially larger installed base of computers, even per > person, > and with more university graduates trained in programming, a higher > take-up in private sector, not just the public sector and defence, was > possible. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > In September 1949, a constitution was instituted by membership > approval. > > =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 > > < > https://web.archive.org/web/20160317070519/https://www.cs.cmu.edu/link/in= stitutional-memories > > > > In 1958, Perlis began teaching the first freshman-level computer > programming course in the United States at Carnegie Tech. > > In 1965, Carnegie Tech established its Computer Science Departmen= t > with a $5 million grant from the R.K. Mellon Foundation. Perlis was the > first department head. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > From the 1968 NATO report [pg 9 of pdf ] > > > Helms: > In Europe alone there are about 10,000 installed computers =E2=80= =94 this > number is increasing at a rate of anywhere from 25 per cent to 50 per cen= t > per year. > The quality of software provided for these computers will soon > affect more than a quarter of a million analysts and programmers. > > d=E2=80=99Agapeyeff: > In 1958 a European general purpose computer manufacturer often ha= d > less than 50 software programmers, > now they probably number 1,000-2,000 people; what will be needed > in 1978? > > _Yet this growth rate was viewed with more alarm than pride._ > (comment) > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- > Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design > 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) > PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA > > mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin > > > --0000000000000e53aa061713050f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,

Your list coincides w= ell with my recollection. A couple of sidelights:

= MIT had one computer course when I arrived there in 1954. It was more about= arithmetic than programming. Desk calculators were used in numerical analy= sis classes.=C2=A0

Philco's release of a=C2=A0= transistorized competitor to IBM's 700=C2=A0series caused IBM to bring= the 7090 out of the back room and drop the newly introduced 709. This was = surely not a planned business decision. IBM was able to do that quickly tha= nks to its work on the 7030 (Stretch) supercomputer for national-defense la= bs.

Purdue's computer-science department was f= ounded in 1962. That trickle became a torrent by 1964-5, but as late as 197= 7 Fred Brooks still opined that any calling with science in its name was no= t a science, witness Christian Science, mortuary science and cosmetic scien= ce.

-------------------------------------------

Parochial event: Bell Labs split computer science fr= om mathematics in 1967.

Rise of the quicksort fall= acy. Tony Hoare's publication in 1961 made algorithms a hip topic. Gene= rations of students since have been led to believe that quicksort is fit fo= r general use, although it is almost always programmed with deterministic p= ivot selection, while Tony specified random selection. Deterministic select= ion requires one to believe that data sets are random, not the algorithm. M= aybe Fred Brooks was right.

=
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 1:20=E2=80=AF= AM steve jenkin <sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au> wrote:
Sorry for the dual list post, I don=E2=80= =99t who monitors COFF, the proper place for this.

There may a good timeline of the early decades of Computer Science and it= =E2=80=99s evolution at Universities in some countries, but I=E2=80=99m mis= sing it.

Doug McIlroy lived through all this, I hope he can fill in important gaps i= n my little timeline.

It seems from the 1967 letter, defining the field was part of the zeitgeist= leading up to the NATO conference.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1949=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ACM founded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1958=C2=A0 =C2=A0 First =E2=80=98freshman=E2=80= =99 computer course in USA, Perlis @ CMU

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1960=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IBM 1400 - affordable & = =E2=80=98reliable=E2=80=99 transistorised computers arrived
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1965=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MIT / Bell / General Electric= begin Multics project.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 CMU establishes Computer Sciences Dept.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1967=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=9CWhat is Computer Sci= ence=E2=80=9D letter by Newell, Perlis, Simon
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1968=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=9CSoftware Crisis=E2= =80=9D and 1st NATO Conference
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1969=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bell Labs withdraws from Mult= ics
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1970=C2=A0 =C2=A0 GE's sells computer busin= ess, including Multics, to Honeywell
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1970=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PDP-11/20 released
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1974=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Unix issue of CACM

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

The arrival of transistorised computers - cheaper, more reliable, smaller &= amp; faster - was a trigger for the accelerated uptake of computers.

The IBM 1400-series was offered for sale in 1960, becoming the first (large= ?) computer to sell 10,000 units - a marker of both effective marketing &am= p; sales and attractive pricing.

The 360-series, IBM=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cbet the company=E2=80=9D machine, wa= s in full development when the 1400 was released.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Attached is a text file, a reformatted version of a 1967 letter to =E2=80= =99Science=E2=80=99 by Allen Newell, Alan J. Perlis, and Herbert A. Simon:<= br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "What is computer science?=E2=80=9D
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~= choset/whatiscs.html>


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

A 1978 masters thesis on Early Australian Computers (back to 1950=E2=80=99s= , mainly 1960=E2=80=99s) cites a 17 June 1960 CSIRO report estimating
1,000 computers in the US and 100 in the UK. With no estimate mentioned for= Western Europe.

The thesis has a long discussion of what to count as a (digital) =E2=80=98c= omputer=E2=80=99 -
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sources used different definitions, resulting i= n very different numbers,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 making it difficult to reconcile early estimate= s, especially across continents & countries.

Reverse estimating to 1960 from the =E2=80=9C10,000=E2=80=9D NATO estimate = of 1968, with a 1- or 2-year doubling time,
gives a range of 200-1,000, including the =E2=80=9C100=E2=80=9D in the UK.<= br>
Licklider and later directors of ARPA=E2=80=99s IPTO threw millions into Co= mputing research in the 1960=E2=80=99s, funding research and University gro= ups directly.
[ UCB had many projects/groups funded, including the CSRG creating BSD &= ; TCP/IP stack & tools ]

Obviously there was more to the =E2=80=9CBoth sides of the Atlantic=E2=80= =9D argument of E.W. Dijkstra and Alan Kay - funding and numbers of install= ations was very different.

The USA had a substantially larger installed base of computers, even per pe= rson,
and with more university graduates trained in programming, a higher take-up= in private sector, not just the public sector and defence, was possible.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

<https://www.acm.org/about-acm/acm-history>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In September 1949, a constitution was institute= d by membership approval.

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94

<htt= ps://web.archive.org/web/20160317070519/https://www.cs.cmu.edu/link/institu= tional-memories>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In 1958, Perlis began teaching the first freshm= an-level computer programming course in the United States at Carnegie Tech.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In 1965, Carnegie Tech established its Computer= Science Department with a $5 million grant from the R.K. Mellon Foundation= . Perlis was the first department head.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>From the 1968 NATO report [pg 9 of pdf ]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <http://= homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/brian.randell/NATO/nato1968.PDF>

Helms:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In Europe alone there are about 10,000 installe= d computers =E2=80=94 this number is increasing at a rate of anywhere from = 25 per cent to 50 per cent per year.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The quality of software provided for these comp= uters will soon affect more than a quarter of a million analysts and progra= mmers.

d=E2=80=99Agapeyeff:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In 1958 a European general purpose computer man= ufacturer often had less than 50 software programmers,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 now they probably number 1,000-2,000 people; wh= at will be needed in 1978?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _Yet this growth rate was viewed with more alar= m than pride._ (comment)


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--
Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design
0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915)
PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA

mailto:sjenki= n@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin

--0000000000000e53aa061713050f--