From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2D825BBC for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:54:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16FC64286C; Thu, 7 Mar 2024 05:54:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE31242864 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2024 05:54:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7db83d59c6eso24670241.3 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2024 11:54:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dartmouth.edu; s=google1; t=1709754848; x=1710359648; darn=tuhs.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ToNOqHdgXZVdDoSt4fJ0bQUWZp0O9HKu11cVtqZs/MA=; b=JKJyEEOCOsk56FDaJ7awL5X0BLxaV0hvFslbF4pv7kNIPVG8gseVW1T9+6aO3Rlp4Y 7hho5CRO68gHbi1sL+1TL1lmNXNKC3P6IkVfwhuqAgU5w9QYX3sEkkFYSF30lYaTLOsA zw9H6onvuvEghzBtyDYCxuC4vIOABjQ92hhbjBFSACvKx2l1F7bi8LtNbNj86W9czuEq 2jg5zxz8rCG2KUjofbM+mwkpi7dQ5IyjRvt/4YUcRx2R8orH0xg/1/KDXMjLlYLfVXWM DJV2L6R9YJyL+9gUPK/o7oT+YobQ6WoSm0C+JblZZfNgigZLZSve5iNwtwI6kzO1YgQK Dyqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709754848; x=1710359648; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ToNOqHdgXZVdDoSt4fJ0bQUWZp0O9HKu11cVtqZs/MA=; b=BP9DlMv/8TBn3dKTTqqTpERoIC8fDZf59hJVD2I85k3rEmqdjw8zCKv15JxyyZyJ+n pm3X0SrWzCc6YLpm/jHkmnDCeLKpUDXmqJcpr2KDZ5qaeoXiSJCdMd0QR/Gqy4eLLQzl H4Ttz25yWumnI6dKLSIjXf3CHQdmDENUYCjNRXP2Hhy2RwipWhbMRss11nFcA1HfiZAJ 5485BKe+JPdxE+hKtybpEviSgI0I5UGq8xsHxGwA8I5kIBRnkMFEryHvkUgcfb/icrPO fOyinwLOwMSFcyT+RXOovFPH91sD+vWcD5i5IpDq1bylm8LqyIExoqVBTOd2TbJ8tU1v JHNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz+OLyQDwEIiatZvQZYmABewoL+Gd1KkuVsSps3H288dvNPcj8S eJZoTz1Goo04F8ixDIqbZfoTS54S+ULVlz80oqU61gEPM2x74tbRScVpbhReIn3lj73CepBJzpG wrOLXh358ZLDgRoh5m+8ULdGmDv/0XvDsXZkxsrLL7g7C8T4p X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEKvequGy+bSSKsvdtuyosBd4jMxrKcWDaXcWv1rc7mgOJoWvDl08O/RiU7Bv+HGYuxhYEx7XM5XG+SO5GOll4= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ce94:0:b0:472:6067:190c with SMTP id c20-20020a67ce94000000b004726067190cmr5475261vse.33.1709754847173; Wed, 06 Mar 2024 11:54:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5C658CA4-7949-4A6F-9FFC-335E207BBB27@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: <5C658CA4-7949-4A6F-9FFC-335E207BBB27@coraid.com> From: Douglas McIlroy Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 14:53:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000051bd9a0613035202" Message-ID-Hash: DFY35CTJTSDPOEBXFVIHVY2MCLVKN55S X-Message-ID-Hash: DFY35CTJTSDPOEBXFVIHVY2MCLVKN55S X-MailFrom: douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Honor declined List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000051bd9a0613035202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very kind words from Brantley and Clem. It's an interesting notion to regard Unix as gestational until it came out in public talks (1973) and was exported to universities. Maybe I could claim to have laid the groundwork for Unix by causing Multics to be written in PL/I, a language big and sprawling, like the project itself. That unintentionally provided plenty of stimulus for thinking small. Ken was absolutely on his own when he began to fiddle with building a tiny operating system on the GE 645. I heard about it only after the fact. After Multics, I ran interference to keep our once-burned higher management from frowning too much on further operating-system research. I was aware that Ken, Dennis and Rudd were discussing the subject down the hall from my office, but I did not participate in the discussions. At the same time, I was noodling over what would later be called shell pipelines; but I did not come up with the vivid term "pipe" or a halfway workable syntax for another three years. While these actions may have contributed to a welcoming environment for Unix, they in no way "started" it. Doug On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 10:03=E2=80=AFAM Brantley Coile wrote: > It all depends on how you define "started." > > Your contributions to it was done while it was still in the maternity war= d > of the hospital in which it was birthed. I would argue, at length if need > be, but I suspect it's not needed, that you indeed "started to develop it= ." > Did only Ken started it. Who was in the room when Ken outlined the file > system? You're finger prints are all over everything from very, very earl= y. > > From a quarter the way into the 21st century, you certainly appear to hav= e > started to develop it. > > Just my humble opinion. my disclaimer is that I've always held your > contributions in very high regard. > > Brantley > > > On Mar 6, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Douglas McIlroy < > douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote: > > > > > When Rudd, Doug, Ken, Dennis, et al start to develop UNIX > > > > Although I jumped into Unix as soon as it was born, I was not one of > those who "start[ed] to develop it". > > > > Doug > > --00000000000051bd9a0613035202 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very kind words from Brantley and Clem. I= t's an interesting notion to regard Unix as gestational until it came o= ut in public talks (1973) and was exported to universities.

Maybe I could claim to have laid the groundwork for Unix by causing= Multics to be written in PL/I, a language big and sprawling, like the proj= ect itself. That unintentionally provided plenty of stimulus for thinking s= mall. Ken was absolutely on his own when he began to fiddle with building a= tiny operating system on the GE 645. I heard about it only after the fact.= =C2=A0

After Multics, I ran interference to keep our onc= e-burned higher management from frowning too much on further operating-syst= em research. I=C2=A0was aware that Ken, Dennis and Rudd were discussing the= subject down the hall from my office, but I did not participate in the dis= cussions. At the same time, I was noodling over what would later be called = shell pipelines; but I did not come up with the vivid term "pipe"= =C2=A0 or a halfway workable syntax for another three years. While these ac= tions may have contributed to a welcoming environment for Unix, they in no = way "started" it.

Doug
=

= On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 10:03=E2=80=AFAM Brantley Coile <brantley@coraid.com> wrote:=
It all depends = on how you define "started."

Your contributions to it was done while it was still in the maternity ward = of the hospital in which it was birthed. I would argue, at length if need b= e, but I suspect it's not needed, that you indeed "started to deve= lop it." Did only Ken started it. Who was in the room when Ken outline= d the file system? You're finger prints are all over everything from ve= ry, very early.

>From a quarter the way into the 21st century, you certainly appear to have = started to develop it.

Just my humble opinion. my disclaimer is that I've always held your con= tributions in very high regard.

Brantley

> On Mar 6, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu<= /a>> wrote:
>
> > When Rudd, Doug, Ken, Dennis, et al start to develop UNIX
>
> Although I jumped into Unix as soon as it was born, I was not one of t= hose who "start[ed] to develop it".
>
> Doug

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