From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15658 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2021 03:25:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Sep 2021 03:25:37 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 30F159C9AD; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:25:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D05F9C870; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:24:58 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=dartmouth.edu header.i=@dartmouth.edu header.b="rWxMr9fE"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ABAE39C870; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:24:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f45.google.com (mail-wr1-f45.google.com [209.85.221.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4794E9BA1E for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:24:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f45.google.com with SMTP id u16so6121598wrn.5 for ; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dartmouth.edu; s=google1; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WaSGDwob67JfjSgmezwbR+F97E4ERggAb/xI0aWerzw=; b=rWxMr9fESi+tCzk+p+ScLZ+1YaSX7mdb9SbiKK4zjw6o6qBC8k3xCAjZywmuC4/mto PEk+n93zPnkPd38FjxOzTFFqiiDjIAgbtpYNJlWGlkPhxB5S/kzPidIdPAB36N5HiUw5 A7dbPbMLS1Qm7FAKQPeUHRETG1FSwCdvcOuqV1B7fjCkhoR9dRerurEz2Cnl68a12grk le51+WqEPFWzzqLttw4E4N82KfgmQ63+MWseruXTtka2ZynYKfFP4hoUSTmnKhTQRTrU jjZi8fUpNzgLEFdPP846lP2LxKqVtV5mvgjCSOeKEos2/SP/orlDwPh5QmcecAnXfHFY 4PfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WaSGDwob67JfjSgmezwbR+F97E4ERggAb/xI0aWerzw=; b=K1OPsElkdf9C0EYvLwfWB3oOPOweDDGihTnjR4av2KKvzgZIDxK4wS864nrpWypET8 sbZzsder2Wi4vTLI/2taU+tFIQpCAhLPsDQAZNjDoSeG+Jvc9dzs/WBjXBJTPitHgYZA urLEDUrLSPovplTAIm+hb99lCi1bhSUm/rXC1P0UvaVDOpVQbPZ38dffB+TEwu6LgiPR W+05IVeYN+lshDMuo437yai7RvVWBnlXrCmaLUBZiUsY2oIt3YhggmkjsGWpDN3G6zU2 Tlxy8/+DjhO1FUx4dzVT8nOYKc46hxzs43mrZEj9lgPswqZkUA/c5HMKRcjqB9P9xpKZ QzJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5307xQCN0ouO1bKAWvUv6UsapsmHc/2mRtokcqqTSp36xHmhym8/ 44aHgIC1svV9Q5rUot1A2f/nT7khSa0XH32Sd+zj9AMmZT2zfg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJweLfM8mEyhW1wQJ70W2UWhDeuGyrunpeIOw2W6Plzo/9oLu7bjavRbqqWlFHRdkVrx7HbCdDMId6dufd5fxq0= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e10c:: with SMTP id t12mr1410004wrz.36.1630639492811; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 20:24:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Douglas McIlroy Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 23:24:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: John Cowan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b9e60605cb0ed77b" Subject: Re: [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b9e60605cb0ed77b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I set out to write a reply, then found that Marshall had said it all, better..Alas, the crucial central principle of Plan 9 got ignored, while its ancillary contributions were absorbed into Linux, making Linux fatter but still oriented to a bygone milieu. Another entrant in the distributable computing arena is Jay Misra's "orchestrator", Orc, in which practice goes hand-in-hand with theory: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/misra/OrcBook.pdf. Doug On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 8:19 PM John Cowan wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:01 AM Tony Finch wrote: > > >> Linux was >> designed for a platform that was defined by Intel and Microsoft, and the >> disfunctional split that Roscoe points out is exactly the split in design >> responsibilities between Intel and Microsoft. >> > > As the saying has it: "What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away." > --000000000000b9e60605cb0ed77b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I set out to write a reply, then found th= at Marshall had said it all, better..Alas, the crucial central principle of= Plan 9 got ignored, while its ancillary contributions were absorbed into L= inux, making Linux fatter but still oriented to a bygone milieu.

Another entrant in the distributable= computing arena is Jay Misra's "orchestrator", Orc, in which= practice goes hand-in-hand with theory:=C2=A0 https://www.cs.utexas.edu= /users/misra/OrcBook.pdf.
=
Doug

=
On Thu, Se= p 2, 2021 at 8:19 PM John Cowan <cowan= @ccil.org> wrote:

=

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:01 AM Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote:
=C2=A0=
Linux was
designed for a platform that was defined by Intel and Microsoft, and the disfunctional split that Roscoe points out is exactly the split in design responsibilities between Intel and Microsoft.

As the saying has it: "What Andy giveth, B= ill taketh away."
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