From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24495 invoked from network); 12 May 2022 00:17:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 May 2022 00:17:38 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 852959BB0A; Thu, 12 May 2022 10:17:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55B89BA54; Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16:58 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="4zhFfgP6"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B5A159BA54; Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f49.google.com (mail-lf1-f49.google.com [209.85.167.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 982D79BA39 for ; Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f49.google.com with SMTP id t25so6271951lfg.7 for ; Wed, 11 May 2022 17:16:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GyJx3Fp7OA/rwjcoUeMAjeqOCs30RG9KT1yiXTguHDo=; b=4zhFfgP6jBrRNF8jVmENG/kXwwQ776WX9DnXNgqusWV9+LF/v3YZOeZHxZrjmDD1dG mNVRDrxP/EIiNOuFMK3ukrasvG7kdvAJiTZOKpwRpyzuk3LefzuQ33dthxNMKwyqhJB6 AnWaOegOA3cimgYzYZkml1WCBGxUhz5pAy+FApCnRTAcej+rloJ3grO52EwpnrVUPVbf 0pskGK7M5wehoqCGy5uEFzqK6ayUUGAzBdMN3gaDii1FAUCUKiTE8yppzKkEa/d+FPEX /yC46BK5fYv1DS2IBsa/HXC0zjgom7OMAdMzauNJiEW7RfKxV+euR1ZtjFxvqUqJKjMv Acew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GyJx3Fp7OA/rwjcoUeMAjeqOCs30RG9KT1yiXTguHDo=; b=ime824pa7inpIEfUaYCbjiXV6SLfoadF3t5QCWnCu70MQYvQDDsdpD8smiieqnox+B cuzIDIrNib39XPJD3qqrbWrHn/wP5FdyRmt1mnvzUU0G90qiG9kaZRPgHCSpOtjbk337 6xnT9RNH31Wd13BVrg1bhbnd/1kEKXCbNCfo9MM1cRCLUfoECkZbgAx1wvmrvEDsl8Cd CMqPZBv1/+PXTXvTyDbfekRi4SzU8ZbFzEGXq3NCWYkRe0AmhU2Xl8EGUPzgzxfV34iQ 49V3j6uvIPVQ6D3NFB7uGhP+i+/BgyVqy9KDv87se40ZPLi+PXdcaSeJCyRwY6NU5To8 +YYw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531aabxnuLinn62J/Exz3rtmePhvLYuif5iL9ILRjr7VkkO4SPln NIKpi+cDtekixt4OL9qfBC+5wL31dsHaa+29RToDYw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxt5SQ1dHUe1qhcfL2eBhFGskQ6jHmOnNqpP4SwwQp3XJo4iPs/5Xzi8OdVo85ZEh2jTqvcDfzuWP9c9zGkaq4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2301:b0:44a:394e:2add with SMTP id o1-20020a056512230100b0044a394e2addmr21866452lfu.177.1652314614000; Wed, 11 May 2022 17:16:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1505232b-86bd-0d65-52c7-c8d19bd0663c@mhorton.net> <20220511173518.GF17911@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20220511173518.GF17911@mcvoy.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16:42 +1000 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I don't think you were misguided. I do think Ultrix was a contained problem for code portability, probably because enough pre-existing code came into Sun, it was a compiler toolchain pre-motivated to work in Vax architecture machinecode. HP-UX on the other hand, and Apollos unix under Domain/OS, I recall as a nightmare. I regularly had to try and get current spec sendmail working on these, because both platforms were in use in Chemical Engineering and NMR related contexts as device controller and display platforms in the uni I worked in. Portable code onto these worlds, was frankly horrid: HP believed a single -lcompat type library provided everything you needed when in fact, #include path hell was inches away. Unisys was freaky bad. Their native IPv4 format for an address used comma, not dot as the dotted-quad separator. On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 3:35 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 12:44:10PM -0400, Paul Winalski wrote: > > Many of the Ultrix > > engineers had a religious belief in keeping Unix pure and > > platform-independent. Things available on only one hardware platform > > were perceived as "vendor traps" and to be avoided. > > Not unique to DEC, I very much had that attitude at Sun and wasn't alone. > As a side effort from making SunOS POSIX compliant, I wrote lint libraries > for BSD, Sys III, Sys V, POSIX, and I don't remember what else. The idea > was that you could use Sun as a dev platform but lint your code against > whatever platform you wanted to target. > > It was misguided, I bet I can count on one hand the number of people that > used any of those, but I hated vendor traps as much as DEC, maybe more.